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1/23/2018 1:35 am  #141


Re: Episode 5.11 - Abraham Stern - Discussion Page - Happy 100!

Tuxie400 wrote:

lara1 - About the "giant bunny," what I see is a person wearing a white fur and running through the Christmas trees. I would assume it's just a coat, but it does suggest a large white rabbit - since little Liz was following a real rabbit and someone yells, "Catch me if you can." With all the times I've rewatched that episode, I've never noticed that before. It's pretty surprising what people have found with these slowed down gifs. Another fan, Kiss My Freckle, was the one who noticed it and claimed that part of Liz's Braxton memory is a manipulation because of the real rabbit and the "giant bunny." 

 
Harvey?  well, it rhymes with Garvey. Heheheh!


“I am exactly who I am. And I can assure you, I’m a far more interesting Raymond Reddington than Raymond Reddington ever was."
 

1/23/2018 1:55 am  #142


Re: Episode 5.11 - Abraham Stern - Discussion Page - Happy 100!

Tuxie400 wrote:

lara1 - Perhaps the knife was left as a calling card. I tend to think like Eastcoast that Garvey expected his clean-up crew to take care of the knife. But since they were killed by Red and Dembe, the knife remained at the scene.

 
Let’s see, it’s a Damascus dagger. Could be expensive depending on who made it or if it’s very old. You can get one for under a hundred bucks. If this one is special I suppose it might be traced to Garvey. Was he wearing gloves when he stabbed Tom? If not it might have his fingerprints? We see it’s photo, but where is it now? In an evidence file?
Just some random thoughts about the knife.


“I am exactly who I am. And I can assure you, I’m a far more interesting Raymond Reddington than Raymond Reddington ever was."
 

1/23/2018 3:46 am  #143


Re: Episode 5.11 - Abraham Stern - Discussion Page - Happy 100!

 Tuxie 400:  "Unfortunately, the technique for making both Damascus and Wootz steel has been lost to the centuries."

Not so.....Please see the following article that has nice photos and a video.
Top quality Damascus pattern steel making is exceptionally labor intensive which makes knife blades and gun barrels very expensive.

Damascus Steel – A Beginner’s Guide

"After 2,000 years, Damascus style and tradition are still going strong, and, in light of their mystique and special quality, they will undoubtedly last a long time to come."
http://knifeinformer.com/damascus-steel-a-beginners-guide/      

 

1/23/2018 10:51 am  #144


Re: Episode 5.11 - Abraham Stern - Discussion Page - Happy 100!

Honey West - Liz's wall of clues has a post-it note saying no fingerprints for the Damascus knife. One of the now-dead cleaners must have wiped it clean.

Trelliswires - Good to see you posting again. Apparently there are a few who craft Damascus steel. I think most of what is sold cheaper is just imitation.

 

1/23/2018 11:43 am  #145


Re: Episode 5.11 - Abraham Stern - Discussion Page - Happy 100!

Tuxie--that's my thinking, that one of the guys in the apartment wiped it before Tom started fighting them again.  Or maybe Garvey did?  I remember him holding a rag, but I thought he was wiping blood from his nose after Liz punches him. 

We've had 3 episodes since the attack at the apartment and not one word from Red about needing to find the bones.   Perhaps he has Crispen or someone else on it?   It still feel like it's an odd situation.  What if Garvey doesn't even have the bones anymore?  Perhaps that could be why he hasn't come after Red?  Someone else got to them?  Purely speculation, obviously.  But it could be interesting.  

 

1/23/2018 12:11 pm  #146


Re: Episode 5.11 - Abraham Stern - Discussion Page - Happy 100!

Tuxie400 wrote:

Brittany wrote:

Tuxie—I was referring to that house where they followed Red, Tom and Dembe when they stopped for a car and first aid. I can’t remember if he was there or not.

Navarro was with the men who went to the house looking for Tom. I would think during the shootout, Navarro would have seen Red with Tom. What significance would that have? I'm not sure what you're getting at.
 

If the eyeball contains retrievable data from that far back, Liz would know Red had been with Tom the day he died and she would possibly see the suitcase on footage.   It would immediately put her onto Red.  But if Red has his people looking at it and finds incriminating footage on there  I wonder if he would delete it or destroy the entire thing, saying it was unsalvageable. 

Last edited by Brittany (1/23/2018 12:12 pm)

 

1/23/2018 1:14 pm  #147


Re: Episode 5.11 - Abraham Stern - Discussion Page - Happy 100!

Tuxie400 #140 - Thanks for that.  I will have a look for it next time I watch it, I think it may be easier to see on a TV screen than on my computer, LOL.  But it is interesting that its there in the first place, esp since its hard to see.  So there must be a purpose to it, IMO.

the girl and what looks like a woman with long hair I'd seen already, not sure what it means.

I do agree with the idea that the Braxton memory is a manipulation, or large parts of it are, hence the shrinking and expanding height of the hallway and the missing ceiling at one point.; also the "real" rabbit doesn't make sense, it may in fact have been the bunny with the fulcrum given to Liz so the others would not find it/take it (and so that Liz would not remember having it).  And the white flashes, which I think signify where there are "patches" patched in.  Just IMO of course.  

Last edited by lara1 (1/23/2018 1:16 pm)

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1/23/2018 1:19 pm  #148


Re: Episode 5.11 - Abraham Stern - Discussion Page - Happy 100!

Red looking at the "wall of clues" takes me back to the pilot and the "original" wall of clues the FBI task force had on Zamani. Another parallel with Zamanit's attack on Tom in the original apartment.

I need to re-watch the scene with the attack, I don't remember exactly who had the knife and when.  It begs the question, if it was Garvey's knife, why was it left behind?  Why didn't he take it with him?  And if it didn't belong to Garvey, which of his goons had it.....questions, questions!

HoneyWest - Harvey!  LOL, that was one of my mother's favorite films when she was younger.....I forget if the film itself was called Harvey but I remember the story.  LOL

Last edited by lara1 (1/23/2018 1:34 pm)

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1/23/2018 1:30 pm  #149


Re: Episode 5.11 - Abraham Stern - Discussion Page - Happy 100!

Trelliswires wrote:

 Tuxie 400:  "Unfortunately, the technique for making both Damascus and Wootz steel has been lost to the centuries."

Not so.....Please see the following article that has nice photos and a video.
Top quality Damascus pattern steel making is exceptionally labor intensive which makes knife blades and gun barrels very expensive.

Damascus Steel – A Beginner’s Guide

"After 2,000 years, Damascus style and tradition are still going strong, and, in light of their mystique and special quality, they will undoubtedly last a long time to come."
http://knifeinformer.com/damascus-steel-a-beginners-guide/      

Trelliswires - Hi!  Great to hear from you.

I noted in the attached linked article that one of the current top producers of high quality Damascus knives is Kershaw.   Kershaw is one of Red's aliases - and I believe the name he used for the Red flat.  And how Liz realizes that the guy who would not talk to Tom (in the men's room I think, maybe in a men's sauna?), back in Season 2 when she was trying to find out info on her mother, that Red had gotten to him (the guy) first.

So it may be the case that this dagger somehow has Red's prints all over it (figuratively speaking, ie there is a connection back to Red somehow, or it leads Liz to Red's involvement, ie the suitcase)

Just IMO of course.  

EDITED TO ADD, oh yes, I still think Red recognized the knife.  Just a feeling more than anything else.  

Last edited by lara1 (1/23/2018 1:35 pm)

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1/23/2018 3:16 pm  #150


Re: Episode 5.11 - Abraham Stern - Discussion Page - Happy 100!

Brittany wrote:

If the eyeball contains retrievable data from that far back, Liz would know Red had been with Tom the day he died and she would possibly see the suitcase on footage.   It would immediately put her onto Red.  But if Red has his people looking at it and finds incriminating footage on there  I wonder if he would delete it or destroy the entire thing, saying it was unsalvageable. 

Thanks for explaining that. What you say makes sense that this might be the way Liz finds out about Red's involvement and the suitcase.
 

 

1/23/2018 4:12 pm  #151


Re: Episode 5.11 - Abraham Stern - Discussion Page - Happy 100!

So, what if Red managed to get the bones back already? Only maybe they aren’t the real bones, but something set up by Garvey to see where they lead? Or what they make Red do next? Maybe that’s what Garvey is waiting for to play out? A trap with bait bones?

Of course it all depends on exactly what Garvey hopes to get out of Red. I don’t think it is Red himself, otherwise he would have had his personal confrontation by now. And is Garvey in it for himself or does he work for someone else, like Oleander, perhaps? Or even Seaduke. Oleander and Seaduke could even be the same person for all we know.


“I am exactly who I am. And I can assure you, I’m a far more interesting Raymond Reddington than Raymond Reddington ever was."
 

1/23/2018 10:06 pm  #152


Re: Episode 5.11 - Abraham Stern - Discussion Page - Happy 100!

The first episode of the season, Smokey Putnam, and last week’s episode, Abraham Stern, really wowed me. Both were surprising, funny, and exciting. And when I started thinking about them, I found they had a lot of elements in common.
 

1. Red drives! Both vehicles are involved in some type of heist. In Smokey Putnam we have the red sports car that Red stole. In Abraham Stern, there’s the Federal Treasury truck.

2. Red is giddy about something. In 5.01 it’s Smokey’s work in the circus.Lions and tigers and bears, Oh My!  In 5.11, it’s treasure - hidden treasures, treasure hunts and mysteries.

3. There’s a coin toss. In Smokey Putnam, Red tosses quarters into a pool for a girl to dive and retrieve. In Abraham Stern, Stern gives the penny he stole from Red a toss skyward.

4. We hear carnie talk. In 5.01 two carnies start talking the lingo, and Red tries to join in but fails. In 5.11, Red has fully mastered the art of adding -ease after every syllable as he and Heddie converse in carnie-ease.

5. Red is involved in car wrecks. He smashes the front and back of Liz’s car in an effort to get away from drug dealers masquerading as U.S, marshalls in 5.01. Abraham Stern’s men T-bone Red’s Mercedes in 5.11.

6. Red liberates something for his own financial gain. In 5.01 he liberated Heddie from prison so she could be his money launderer.In 5.11 Red liberates the treasury bonds using a giant vacuum.

7. Both liberations rely on vehicle deceptions. In 5.01 the vehicle is disguised as a prison transport, while in 5.11, a white car is transformed into a police car.

8. Someone complains that Red is on a noisy phone. In 5.01 the noise that distracts Liz comes from sirens on police cars chasing Red. The racket of the giant vacuum makes it hard for Cooper to hear Raymond in 5.11.

9. Both end with Red celebrating his financial gain. In 5.01, Red pays for refreshments at the Motor Lodge Social Hour. In 5.11, he buys the Churchill hat.

10. Red surprises Liz at the end. In 5.01 he dances with her, and in 5.11 he does the coin trick by pulling the penny out of her ear.  

Last edited by Tuxie400 (1/23/2018 10:19 pm)

 

1/23/2018 10:59 pm  #153


Re: Episode 5.11 - Abraham Stern - Discussion Page - Happy 100!

Tuxie400 - i liked reading your comparisons.  The break in to the treasury with the fake treasury truck delivering cash reminded me of how Anslo gained access to the Post Office in Anslo Garrick.

And the vacuum tubes reminded me of the Caretaker's tubes.  I think you once noted the tube references somewhere before, but I can't recall what they were.

HoneyWest - it could be that Red has the bones.  I can't understand why over a year later he either wouldn't have them or had not tracked down Garvey to eliminate him/avenge what happened to Liz.  I do wonder if Garvey has the goods on Red, meaning, if Red touches Garvey, something bad will happen.  Kind of like the Cabal tolerated Red because if anything happened to him (they thought) the Fulcrum would be released.  either than, or Garvey works for someone else who has that power.

Last edited by lara1 (1/23/2018 10:59 pm)

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1/23/2018 11:08 pm  #154


Re: Episode 5.11 - Abraham Stern - Discussion Page - Happy 100!

lara1 - I do think the treasury truck was like the Anslo Garrick truck. I never thought about the vacuum tubes being like the Caretaker's tubes, but I guess they are in a way. I know we're getting deluged with parallels from other seasons. But I was surprised how many parallels 5.11 had with 5.01.

 

1/23/2018 11:31 pm  #155


Re: Episode 5.11 - Abraham Stern - Discussion Page - Happy 100!

Tuxie400 wrote:

lara1 - I do think the treasury truck was like the Anslo Garrick truck. I never thought about the vacuum tubes being like the Caretaker's tubes, but I guess they are in a way. I know we're getting deluged with parallels from other seasons. But I was surprised how many parallels 5.11 had with 5.01.

Tuxie400 - agree, and it is sometimes like parallels within parallels.  Like, Pete shaving with his injured, bandaged left hand was both like Tom before he went off to Germany with his tattoos, as well as Berlin sharing off his beard, with his left hand injury bandaged.   That's just one of many.....

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1/24/2018 1:08 am  #156


Re: Episode 5.11 - Abraham Stern - Discussion Page - Happy 100!

HW, post 151,  I cannot understand that in over a year he has not found anything and Liz basically rounded up those guys like yesterdays leftovers in no time!  
He was a bit sarcastic when he told Harold she was looking for Tom's killers.  They are also the people who nearly killed her.  That is why I do not understand that even though finding them may uncover those bones, they do need to be found. 





 


It's a shame you have no crackers  
 

1/24/2018 11:39 am  #157


Re: Episode 5.11 - Abraham Stern - Discussion Page - Happy 100!

Eastcoast - one of my thoughts - which I hope is not true - is that Red originally hired Garvey to find and extract the suitcase, but just like with the "Hans plot" years earlier, the outcome got out of control and Garvey did more than he should have - and maybe discovered along the way the value of the suitcase, once he maybe saw what was on Pete's computer screen.  Thus Red knows who has it.  But I hope not

That still doesn't explain why he hasn't gone after Garvey - unless - whether or not he hired him - Garvey has some teflon-like quality like Tom had, which prevented Red from touching him.  Perhaps Garvey has some kind of protection, or maybe Garvey has a contingency plan in place - that if something were to happen to him, someone else would release the bones and the associated info.  Like Red had with the fulcrum (or rather the threat of it.)

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1/24/2018 2:24 pm  #158


Re: Episode 5.11 - Abraham Stern - Discussion Page - Happy 100!

I rewatched Abraham Stern yesterday, and loved it even more the second time around. The first time I saw Liz playing the Stewmaker, I guess I was so thrilled with the parallel, I wasn't thinking how stupid she was for doing that.

Why did she feel compelled to get rid of Navarro's body when his death was accidental, and she was fighting for her life when it happened? The best course of action would have been to call the police. I think the evidence was pretty clear it hadn't been a murder. And after all, she had a wound too. Now, with the Bionic eye that she's carrying around with her, the chances are high that she'll end up getting arrested.

I've been rewatching some of the fall episodes and notice there are several times when Liz is shot through metal bars. It especially drew my attention in Greyson Blaise where Liz is at the gate of the Lake Cuomo villa and in the Travel Agency when she and Samar are questioning one of the victims when he is shot.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (1/24/2018 7:52 pm)

 

1/24/2018 5:21 pm  #159


Re: Episode 5.11 - Abraham Stern - Discussion Page - Happy 100!

Tuxie400 - bars or blinds?  Or are they one and the same??  

I agree re Liz but then we wouldn't have had a very cool plot development, I guess.....

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1/24/2018 7:00 pm  #160


Re: Episode 5.11 - Abraham Stern - Discussion Page - Happy 100!

Perhaps Liz getting rid of Navarro's body is a parallel to something that Red did that set off the chain of events that led to his going into the criminal world and everything connected to it?  Dom referred to the 'colossal mess' Red made that led to them having to walk away from Liz's life.  I wonder if Red could have covered up something he (or Katarina) did that would have been better off if it had just been exposed for what it was, likely an accident or something unintentional. 
 

 

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