The Blacklist Refugees » The Suitcase

lara1 · 1/07/2018 12:05 pm

Last night I re-watched the episode where Red tells Liz the story of how, according to Sam, Liz came to live with Sam. And of course its completely at odds with what we see in Requiem, which we've already noted.

I've always been a believer that there were two girls in fire house. Two rabbits, the second child image in the closet, the vantage points, the visual morphing of one girl into another during the start of the Dr. Orchard session. Of course, we don't even know how much of what we are seeing or hearing is real.

But it did occur to me, what if there were two girls, both rescued from the fire by different people? KR seems to have taken Liz (Masha) out of the fire, then Kaplan took her to Sam's at some point later.

In the story Red tells, a friend of Sam who was scared and at the fire, brings "Liz" to Sam's the same night of the fire, and that could not be the Kaplan scenario. This is a leap, but what if both girls were brought to Sam's, at different times, and the other one was subsequently brought somewhere else? One of the two "Elizabeths". That is also the same episode where we see, moments later, Red's burn scars. The implication that he was at the fire, which he later confirms. So, did KR take one child from the fire and Red another? Hope I haven't given you all a headache! LOL

Right now this idea has a lot of holes in it of course. But I'll keep thinking! LOL.

1/07/2018 6:41 pm

If they were supposed to be a child's bones, I would say it is an older child, possibly one big for its age at that, because the bones do look too big to be someone young (like Liz's age). I still tend to believe they are an adult's though, even though I have opened my mind a little (like a tiny crack) to them belonging to someone younger.

Maybe Liz shot someone the night of the fire, someone important, and Red (and possibly KR) covered it up to protect her and themselves. Then everyone had to split up to protect Liz?

But my instinct still tells me that Kaplan was complicit in this somehow because her calling it 'our secret'. Not just strictly Red's. Which would put it later than the fire.

Eastcoast · 1/08/2018 6:30 pm

lara1, I didn't think it was KR because I don't think she dressed like that either. I just wanted to know what shoes they were wearing. I did watch it last night and it didn't show her feet that I could see.

Tuxie, that's what I thought when I looked in my notes but I kept thinking there was another time, I think I was thinking of the time he blew up the house.

Eastcoast · 1/08/2018 6:32 pm

oh, lara post 222, I have a thought about the second child but I am going to put it on the FIre NIght thread.

1/08/2018 6:53 pm

The (possible) problem with someone taking a kid to Sam's the night of the fire is location...I know we've never known for sure where they were, but I had the impression that the trip to Nebraska was a bit of a drive for them. I've tended to think they were on the east coast. But even from the midwest where I live, a drive to Nebraska is a 12-14 hour trip.

lara1 · 1/08/2018 11:47 pm

Brittany #226 - yes that is a valid point. Before Requiem, I'd always thought that the fire took place in a suburb or rural area outside DC somewhere and that Sam lived nearby, and very soon afterward, relocated to Nebraska. But Kaplan's memory is entirely different. Assuming we can rely on it. We've not been shown anything, IMO, to say we can't, although she did go off the deep end. But Nebraska would be a good choice, far far away from everyone who knew Red and KR.

1/11/2018 11:31 am

So what does everyone think will be the point we get the suitcase body ID? I don't think they can drag it out until the season finale...that seems too long. In episode 12 it already says that Liz is becoming suspicious of Red's motives, she has taken care of Navarro and Garvey is the only other living person from the attack at the apartment (the modern day night of the fire). Even incorporating the mysterious Oleander, I don't know if that story arc can hang on until episode 22 without feeling stale. It already has most people beating their heads against the wall. Perhaps we get a cliffhanger at the spring hiatus, then have to wait a few weeks to get more answers? I could see them leaving us with the name of the person in the suitcase with no explanations and then going into it after they come back. I already feel like it is a bit unrealistic that Garvey wouldn't have found Red by now...even if he laid low for a while because of the attack on Tom and Liz and has done his homework enough to realize Liz's importance to Red, that's still well over a year of time with nothing.

Tuxie400 · 1/11/2018 11:34 am

I don't think the bones will be identified until the season finale. And once we find out that will be the cliffhanger. It will be dragged out for a very long time. Hopefully there will be enough twists and turns in the tale that won't get stale.

1/11/2018 11:40 am

I hope not. I think there are plenty of other things that can be left as cliffhangers in relation to this. But the BL isn't exactly known for it's timeliness with wrapping up a storyline. It's either ignored or dragged out for 88 episodes.

lara1 · 1/11/2018 11:52 am

I think the suitcase reveal will be at the end, it'll be kind of back burner bubbling away and then will heat up significantly in the last couple of episodes. That's my thought anyway. Or its revealed the episode before but a huge twist comes at the very last episode. I've kind of mentally parked it to the side because there isn't enough info to make a really informed guess of who it is. And it may just turn out to be something that no one has thought of yet. Doesn't stop be pondering other stuff though, LOL

Last edited by lara1 (1/11/2018 11:53 am)

Eastcoast · 1/11/2018 11:57 am

lara1, I think on the other site we were on we had discussed the distance to Nebraska. I think we had the millage and hours from Cape May and from DC.

1/11/2018 12:02 pm

If they do wait to reveal the suitcase at the very end I at least hope they introduce other people/things (like Oleander) to keep it from stagnating. As much as I love psycho Liz, it feels like this could struggle with only one guy left to find.

Eastcoast · 1/14/2018 12:26 pm

Brittany, My family watches this show off and on. They get sick of the dragging it out...........

Every one I have spoken to is happy to keep watching just for the blacklisters.

1/14/2018 12:31 pm

Eastcoast- I keep wondering how in the world this is going to be a season-long mystery that doesn't fall flat because it dragged on too long. There are still 12 episodes left, one guy left from the night of the attack, and bones that could be anywhere. Liz is also noted to start becoming suspicious of Red's motives in episode 12...I feel like some of the blacklisters this season haven't been as good because they've had to devote so much energy to the bigger mystery.

Eastcoast · 1/14/2018 12:41 pm

I have noticed sometimes it focuses more on the blacklister and does not give us a clue to anything we want. For example, we only see Garvey a few seconds on the phone. We want to know more what he is up to! I think that is one way to keep us coming back. But like I said no one in my clan watched season 4 until it came on netflx that I can think of. Then they binge watched it. I have 1 friend that is watching right now and that is it!

I saw where they said that about episode 12. I personally felt like she looked at him with a bit of question in her mind after he said he had been looking for over a year.

She might have been thinking her and Red would work as a team to find out who did this. I was also thinking they might be why she let Agnes stay with Her.

Well, off to some real life stuff....

1/14/2018 2:03 pm

Back to Oleander for a minute...

Tom wasn't supposed to have any more contact with Dennison after retrieving the suitcase, correct? He was just supposed to go home, give it to Liz, and watch the world burn. Dennison wasn't supposed to say anything about Oleander, or else he would have when Tom called him about the suitcase. So does that mean we can possibly conclude that Kaplan wasn't anticipating Oleander?

Tuxie400 · 1/14/2018 2:15 pm

I think Oleander was Kaplan's backup plan. She learned from Red to always have contingencies.

1/14/2018 2:46 pm

Tuxie400 wrote:
I think Oleander was Kaplan's backup plan. She learned from Red to always have contingencies.

That's possible. I thought Dennison and the suitcase were her contingency. I think Kaplan implicitly trusted Tom to give the suitcase to Liz. They had been allies in trying to get Liz away from Red is season 3. When JB said in an interview over the summer that Kaplan not knowing Liz would learn Red was her father would change things, I think he meant because Tom wouldn't follow her plan and would end up bringing more heat on to the situation, ultimately getting killed and Liz not getting the truth. I have to question if Kaplan could have ever predicted any of this. Even though she had gone off the rails, I do think she still genuinely cared for Liz and Agnes and wouldn't want to risk either of them.

lara1 · 1/14/2018 4:00 pm

I do wonder from time to time if Red is Oleander and maybe no one knows this. Like the fake guy he made up or the couple of Blacklister chases he orchestrated himself.

The myth of Leander is of someone who was in love with Hero. Every day he swam across a sea in order to be with her. Then one day he drowned in a storm. Hero, upon hearing this, was so distraught that she threw herself into the ocean and drowned. Parallel to some of the KR backstory.

Or, Oleander is the real Red or whomever was supposed to be in the suitcase. Maybe whatever Tom saw in the DNA report, he linked to a "Leander" of sorts. I suppose we'll find out soon.

Honey West · 1/14/2018 4:25 pm

TPTB said recently that we will know who the bones belong to by the time the season ends. And we will get a big reveal about Red. They had said awhile ago that this season would delve into Red's past with regard to Russia, so maybe that ties it together.? Also that they would have the best season ending cliffhanger yet.