The Blacklist Refugees » Episode 5.09 - Ruin

Honey West · 1/05/2018 12:47 am

lara1 wrote:
We had another phonograph in the cabin in last night's episode.
Honey West, I was wondering if you recognized it as similar to the one in Red's flat. It had the same kind of plastic cover also. I seem to remember you knew something about the one in Red's flat? I hope that I am not confusing you with someone else. LOL

Yeah, I saw that turntable. I need to rewatch to see it better. But it did strike me as fitting in with the old stuff in the cabin. Those type of turntables were big in the 70’s and 80s. The stereo receiver in Red's flat was a Marantz, also popular in the 70’s. I have one very similar to it, but more of an entry level model. I bought it in the mid-70’s and it still works today, even though most of the indicator lights are out. It’s in my garage. I used to have a Dual turntable attached to it. It had a plastic cover like the ones on the show do.

I was thinking a lot of the stuff was more 70’s, and maybe the cabin had belonged to someone who lived there for decades and Liz was able to get it "furnished" with all of the previous owner's stuff. Plus, wherever she was in Alaska, it’s not easy to get to a lot of places and so the likelihood is pretty high that she’d find some place with a lot of old furnishings in it. Just my take on it.

Honey West · 1/05/2018 1:05 am

IowaWatcher wrote:
I wasn't too sure what to make of that last scene with Red: I can't tell whether he's concerned or resigned to Liz's transformation. There's a whole backstory that we can only guess at.

I liked the flashback with Scottie! That was a great way to resolve the Agnes problem.

So, now the show runners have rebooted the show and have a clean screen, so to speak. What's next?

Totally agree, IowaWatcher. I was thinking that Red realizes that Liz is going to follow his possible past path more closely than he would like, and maybe realizes that in spite of all,of his efforts to help her have a normal, white picket fence, life, that just ain’t gonna happen. So he needs to back off, because meddling just made it worse. Or maybe he has some other things going that he started while Liz was in her coma. Because there was probably a good chance that she might never wake up, and he would have to deal with it. Plus I bet it really bugs him that not only does Scottie make his toes curl, but now she is also another one of Agnes's grandparents.

Speaking of Agnes, we now have Liz in a similar position to both Red and Katarina. Liz realizes that since she saw the men that killed Tom that her life will likely be in danger as long as they are out there, and of course that danger would also extend to Agnes. So Liz, knowing that she could be death to her, has been forced to give her up for her own safety, much like she, herself, was given up to be raised by another. Scottie told her that when she was ready she would come back for Agnes. I suspect that Katarina maybe thought the same thing. Perhaps she went after those men from the fire, like Liz plans to go after the Garvey Gang, but they got to her first? But since we don’t really know what Katarina was planning,we can only speculate, and wonder if there are parallels there as well with what Liz is doing.

Tuxie400 · 1/05/2018 10:25 am

Honey West - #62 - all good points about why Liz has to give up Agnes to keep her safe - just like Katarina did with her. I keep wondering if the Liz parallels are more with Red or Katarina. Or if it even matters, if they turn out to be one in the same.

Big Badd Bazzer · 1/05/2018 11:28 am

Stowing Agnes away with Famke (Susan Hargrave) also maintains a link (albeit small) to Tom - and retains a prominent star on retainer to be used at the show-runner's pleasure. Not too many American actresses have the prominence of Famke Janssen so I'm pleased she'll be able to participate in future episodes, perhaps even teaming with Liz on particular missions.

As far as mission pairings - the ones I'd love to see:

Samar - Famke - Liz
Liz - Famke
Aram - Dembe
Glen - Harold - Donald
Red & Famke

Tuxie400 · 1/05/2018 11:51 am

BBB - I think a Liz-Scottie mission would be interesting. Speaking of unusual pairings, I see Liz is paired with Glen in the 100 episode. That should be fun!

lara1 · 1/05/2018 12:01 pm

I think the Agnes/Scottie thing was a good plot device to remove Agnes from the main action of the story, at least for now, while drawing yet another parallel of Liz to Katerina/Red in Liz being given to Sam (which according to Requiem, I think, was also supposed to be on a "temporary" basis, until KR "came back" for her). So will Liz ever come back for Agnes? I suppose we'll see.

It does beg the question, though, why Scottie, with all of her resources, isn't going after Tom's killers as well. But I can go with it, because this is really Liz's parallel story/development and there is nothing to say that Liz and Scottie won't work together in some capacity on this.

Tuxie400 -"I keep wondering if the Liz parallels are more with Red or Katarina. Or if it even matters, if they turn out to be one in the same."

Last edited by lara1 (1/05/2018 12:02 pm)

lara1 · 1/05/2018 12:06 pm

Although a Famke/Liz duo might be interesting, for now I think I'd like to see Samar or Ressler or Aram help Liz in her quest, which would pose interesting boundary questions and give some of them (particularly Ressler) more storylines now that Tom has left, giving back to the other characters in the show the oxygen he took up. Just my own preference. I guess we'll see what the show runners have in mind.

Big Badd Bazzer · 1/05/2018 3:47 pm

Tuxie400 wrote:
BBB - I think a Liz-Scottie mission would be interesting. Speaking of unusual pairings, I see Liz is paired with Glen in the 100 episode. That should be fun!

Lizzie & Glen, that's terrific for ep #100 - may as well put The Carnies on that team - for comedy relief, of course!!!

1/05/2018 4:14 pm

I have wondered if Ressler will end up turning to Red to get out from under Prescott’s thumb and then Red in turn will ask for Ressler’s help in some regard to either finding who has the suitcase or keeping something hidden from Liz in regards to it. That would be interesting to see.

Also, there was mention somewhere that a character Red thought was no longer a threat comes back (I’ll look for the article). Any ideas? I don’t think it’s Scottie, as she just seems to have Agnes and not be a threat.

Tuxie400 · 1/05/2018 4:31 pm

Brittany wrote:
I have wondered if Ressler will end up turning to Red to get out from under Prescott’s thumb and then Red in turn will ask for Ressler’s help in some regard to either finding who has the suitcase or keeping something hidden from Liz in regards to it. That would be interesting to see.

Brittany - I would like to see that too. Ressler would owe Red, so Red could call in a suitcase favor.

I kind of think the person who was coming back was Scottie.

\

lara1 · 1/05/2018 4:35 pm

Brittany - yes, I wonder who that is. I also heard that a blacklister will come back and have a role that is surprising. I don't know if that is one and the same, but the latter could be Scottie I suppose.

There aren't too many blacklisters who were threats that Red didn't eliminate or ensure that someone else eliminated them. Kirk is an exception but I don't think its him. Maybe its the guy who beat out Red to buy the shipping line? Red seemed to get him back on his side, but maybe that was tenuous. I don't think its Scottie either. Unless she teams up with Liz to find Tom's killer. But I don't really think that is happening.

Big Badd Bazzer · 1/05/2018 5:59 pm

Was it ever announced whether Tom had a twin brother? OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

lara1 · 1/05/2018 6:20 pm

Hi all, well I reviewed my list of parallels to other episodes and stuff we have discussed along the journey, and will post them here. It will be two posts. You all may have picked up on these already but I thought it would be helpful to post them anyway. And maybe you noticed others!

Part One

General Parallels
Liz giving Agnes to Scottie/parallel with KR/Red and Sam
Liz telling Scottie what Agnes does/does’t like - parallel with Kaplans’ chat with Sam about what Liz liked/didn’t like

The cabin in the woods as an escape - Dom in his cabin, fleeing “the pack”, Red’s trip to Cape May; Hunter’s cabin
The cabin itself - parallels to Red’s cabin, to Dom’s cabin (with barn/garage) with workbench and KR’s toys/the Cape May house
The cabin and Dom’s place had a barn/garage with a workbench, Dom had KR’s old childhood toys and there is a late 1950s vintage sled in the barn/garage in Liz’s cabin

Liz/Kaplan/Hunter -
Liz sipping soup;
saving the WITSEC man on the sled -reversal of Hunter/Kaplan roles with saving the the man.
This scene also reminded me of Apothecary, where the girl who saves Red is sitting by his bedside in Gerard’s fiancé’s house
Hunter’s dog/Liz’s dog (named Kate!)
Liz hitching a ride at the end like Kate did

Cape May:
The guys when stalking Liz in the house and in the barn really reminded me of the guys in the house and basement in Cape May
In both cases, one guy was distracted with a flashlight
The guy dispatched in the cellar with the propane was like the propane trap Red set in Cape May
The guy dispatched with the flare gun was a bit like the guy electrocuted in Cape May (and reminded me of Red’s missles!)
One guy is killed with an axe; Red got the umbrella “intruder” with an axe in Cape May.
One guy in Cape May was garroted.
The walkie talkie like the flip phones in Cape May
Interesting that the voice on the VHF radio was Russian
The empty Ranger’s office reminded me of the empty reception desk in Cape May - I kept looking for an incongruity there too but didn’t notice anything
Alaska State Ranger/Cop in Cape May
Both Liz and KR/Red clean up the crime scene afterwards
The curtains on the windows and the wood panelling in the cabin are like the main room in Cape May
The apologies at the end of the episode reminded me a little of Red’s apology to KR at the end of Cape May

Red’s Christmas Eve story:
Snow, of course….., remote woods of course
The car that ran out of gas, would not run/Liz’s car will not start
The smoke coming out of the chimney - mentioned by one of the guys in Liz’s cabin

Last edited by lara1 (1/05/2018 6:55 pm)

lara1 · 1/05/2018 6:25 pm

Parallels Part Two

Random things:
Liz pours vodka on the man’s wounds, it is Russian vodka, the name looks like its in Cyrillic
The red buildings reminded me of Tansi Farm
Lots of yellow prescription drug bottles - like those on Dom’s table in Artax; and Emma’s kitchen table in The Harem
The axe!
The phonograph! And like the one in Red’s flat.
One guy had a wound to the right side of the head
Liz dropped off the WITSEC guy at the hospital like with Red when the cop was accidentally shot by her in Season 3
Liz on the floor of her apartment with all of the files, like when she was trying to connect the Blacklisters and figure out Berlin
References to ghosts - reminded me of Velov’s comment on KR as a ghost
Task Force - Liz wants Red to continue and he is reluctant: role reversal for them from Season 3
Bear imagery was interesting, especially with the Russian voices on the radio - bear warning poster in the Ranger’s office, references to bear hunting….I know she was in Alaska, which has bears and is close to Russia, but still that Russian voice was a bit eerie, to me at least.
Fishing trip/fishing tackle sold at the hardware store
A downed “plane”
Lots of fire imagery, even in the cabin
The tablecloth in the cabin was similar to either the tablecloth in Dom’s house or in Sam’s house, I can’t recall exactly
I’ve already commented about the vintage food tins, the 1950s refrigerator. I think the cabin was a mix of 1980s/early 90s things and late fifties/early sixties things, both of which reminded me of KR. At least, for me it was like KR was there in spirit, whether figuratively or literally…..
It was interesting how the lead bad guy did not want to harm “Grace” initially, he was looking for them to somehow get away with the guy without harming her, which did remind me of Red’s approach to “innocents”

Last edited by lara1 (1/05/2018 6:29 pm)

lara1 · 1/05/2018 6:38 pm

Thanks to all who sent well wishes for the blizzard! it was bitter cold today shoveling the snow, but what an excuse for hot chocolate by the fire afterwards

And, I re-watched Cape May last night and noticed two things I had not before (well I noticed them but now they may have a meaning I hadn't thought of previously). I'll just park it here as this is the active thread

- there is a large sign when Red walks through the gate to the hotel grounds, in capital letters "No Dogs Allowed"
- on the wall inside Jack's shack, the name EMMA is scrawled in capital letters (along with other graffiti like stuff). (Odd for a space well maintained).

Last edited by lara1 (1/05/2018 6:38 pm)

Tuxie400 · 1/06/2018 12:05 pm

I just saw some gifs of Liz walking down that road in Alaska, trying to hitch a ride. It reminded me so much of Kaplan leaving Mountain Man's cabin. As did Liz's being in a remote cabin in the woods, dragging a wounded person, eating soup, and cleaning the crime scene. And, of course, there was the dog named Kate. The writer's were bound and determined not to let us forget Kate Kaplan. I think this all foreshadowing that Liz will end up tyring to obliterate Red like Kaplan did.

lara1 · 1/06/2018 12:24 pm

Tuxie400, #76 - great observation. And, the roles of Kate and Hunter are kind of reversed with Liz and the WITSEC guy. And - Hunter did blow up the cabin, nearly killing Red and Dembe. But regardless, I think the Kaplan parallels are very strong.

Last edited by lara1 (1/06/2018 12:25 pm)

1/06/2018 12:38 pm

I thought the Kaplan parallels were showing how she has been influenced by her as well as tapping into those parts of her genetics that bring out the ice in her veins, the resourcefulness, and bravery. To me it showed that both nature (KR and Red) and environment/nurture (Kaplan, KR, Red, and probably some Sam in there) formed who she is, going back to that conversation with Smokey Putnum in episode 1.

Tuxie400 · 1/06/2018 1:12 pm

Brittany wrote:
I thought the Kaplan parallels were showing how she has been influenced by her as well as tapping into those parts of her genetics that bring out the ice in her veins, the resourcefulness, and bravery. To me it showed that both nature (KR and Red) and environment/nurture (Kaplan, KR, Red, and probably some Sam in there) formed who she is, going back to that conversation with Smokey Putnum in episode 1.

Brittany - I agree with what you wrote here. That's pretty much what I thought at first. But generally when the BL writers push so many parallels, it involves foreshadowing. There are far more parallels in this with Kaplan than with Red or Katarina. That surprised me. When Liz finds out Tom's death was the result of another of Red's secrets, it could easily turn her against him - whether he's he father or not.

1/06/2018 1:32 pm

I'm torn on what I think she'll do when she discovers that Red's secret is part of what got Tom killed (besides Garvey's blood lust and Tom's inability to just give Liz something to figure out on her own ). I definitely think her trying to bring him down is a possibility. But I also think the fact that they have gotten so close since she discovered that he is her father, how he responds to her when she confronts him on it, and whatever secret that suitcase holds will factor into how she handles the situation. I don't feel like I've seen enough of this 'new' Liz yet to decide how I think she'll handle it. But I don't know that she's a match for Red (at this point. That could change.) I'm just loving the new Liz. It's the Liz I've always wanted to see.