The Blacklist Refugees » Episode 5.08 - Ian Garvey

11/18/2017 11:39 am

I agree Tuxie. The FBI could have shielded him I tend to think it was his not being able to watch her die again and realizing that he does have a part in Tom dying. Perhaps even thinking about Agnes and everything that he was possibly tasking from her, even if not directly.

Tuxie400 wrote:
I just rewatched the scene in the car and in the hospital on the NBC site. Why do you think Red stayed in the car rather than go in the hospital? I don't think it was because he thought he'd be recognized. I think he just couldn't bear to watch Liz die again. And I think he was struggling with so much guilt at the point that he was immobilized.

I'm wondering if now, having lost Liz twice, if he will be more forthcoming with her. It's hard for me to believe that even after bringing that much violence into her life, that he wouldn't be able to be honest with her.

Last edited by Brittany (11/18/2017 11:39 am)

Tuxie400 · 11/18/2017 1:18 pm

I've had another thought about the date on Tom's toe tag too. Isn't it possible that Tom didn't die the night he was brought into the E.R. but lingered on for a week before he died? Perhaps after hearing Liz was in a coma and doctors were suggesting she be taken off life support. We see him flatline and paddles be applied to his chest. The outcome is suggested but not certain there.

11/18/2017 1:49 pm

What I believe I read somewhere was that this episode was supposed to air on 11-22 but moved up when the premiere got moved up a week and that they must have missed the date. But it wasn’t shown on tv was it? Just the promo pics?

Honey West · 11/18/2017 2:49 pm

Correct, Brittany. On my re-watch I stopped it at the toe tag to try to read it and you cannot see the date at all, so it's only in the promo photos. They didn't need to fix anything.

Honey West · 11/18/2017 2:54 pm

Brittany wrote:
I've figured that the 10 months thing would bring the story timeline up to the present (or close). Basically from the point of 3.19 to 5.08 the time passed isn't in line with the present day. The season 4 finale and the season 5 premiere happened within a couple of days of each in their universe and the timeline has been passing pretty slowly this season (a couple of months at most, I would imagine).

I hope they don't do the whole Liz was pregnant while in a coma thing. She already has one child whose life she has missed out on for close to 50% of the time between the initial fake death and kidnapping thing, now the 10 month coma and spent a lot of her time being raised by a nanny. Not to mention, grief and raising a newborn don't mix well.

I think if they went that route then it would be something that might come up at a much later date. I think if that happened then they would make sure she didn't even know about the baby or they would tell her that she had miscarried while in her coma or something. I hope it;s just them catching up to the present day, but these people are tricky enough that they picked 10 months for another reason.

IowaWatcher · 11/18/2017 4:22 pm

Honey West wrote:
Brittany wrote:
but these people are tricky enough that they picked 10 months for another reason.

I'm hopeful that they are rebooting the show back to about mid-term of the first season and that Liz won't have more babies. That storyline didn't work that well. They have left themselves those sex scenes with Tom and 10 months if there is the need to do it, but I hope that's not in the cards!

I'm thinking they picked 10 months so that they can skip a lot of the rebuilding process with characters, plus Red's "money-making scheme of the week" was probably becoming a bit tedious for the writers. I'd like to see them move back to battling the Cabal, along with some good spy stuff.

Honey West · 11/18/2017 4:58 pm

IowaWatcher wrote:
Honey West wrote:
Brittany wrote:
but these people are tricky enough that they picked 10 months for another reason.
I'm hopeful that they are rebooting the show back to about mid-term of the first season and that Liz won't have more babies. That storyline didn't work that well. They have left themselves those sex scenes with Tom and 10 months if there is the need to do it, but I hope that's not in the cards!

I'm thinking they picked 10 months so that they can skip a lot of the rebuilding process with characters, plus Red's "money-making scheme of the week" was probably becoming a bit tedious for the writers. I'd like to see them move back to battling the Cabal, along with some good spy stuff.

I totally agree with you there, Iowa Watcher!

Big Badd Bazzer · 11/18/2017 5:26 pm

I could never tire of Red's 'Scheme of the Week Club' but I also agree its better if they dissolved that edict, maybe one more for old times sake!

Big void if they amp up the spying aspect - Tom Bond was a masterful OO7 with his silver-tongued patter. I suspect they'll have to lean on Aram or Ressler - once Donald's Hitchens murder is resolved (or might they leave that one open?)

Frankly, the person I'd elevate is probably the one who most would not - that being Samar. She's trained Mossad, knows how Red works and is intimately familiar with the task force. This entire season has seen her audit the episodes vs. real participation.

Don't know if she could pull off some of the unbelievable hazzeri Tom pulled off - but she'd be fun, given her propensity for seriousness!

Tuxie400 · 11/18/2017 6:14 pm

BBB - Without Tom, I imagine the other cast members like Samar will be given more to do. In Season 2 and especially in Season 3's The Director, Samar proved she was quite the spy. It will be interesting to see how she is used in the future.

Big Badd Bazzer · 11/18/2017 9:16 pm

Well, unless they decide to put Liz into battle (bad move after being in a 10 month coma) the only female option they have is Samar. I think they'd be wise to turn her loose - into a super-spy type, both mentally and physically. Tom was very smart - his weakness was poking his nose into everyone's business, which ultimately led to his demise. Samar, a trained Mossad won't have that problem.
Tom's super-powers were his incredible resourcefulness, ability to talk himself in and out of a variety of situations and his unique physical powers - which came out when death was upon him or his family.

Samar hasn't been shown to have much family. Perhaps its time to pull a "Ziva Daveed" with her and introduce some of her family (Israeli Green Berets, Mossad, political leeders, etc.)

As for another female option - Annie Heise?

Big Badd Bazzer · 11/18/2017 9:20 pm

Be delicious to see Annie & Mozhan work together, wouldn't you?

lara1 · 11/18/2017 10:08 pm

Tatiana wrote:
Honey West wrote:
Tuxie400 wrote:
My first thought about the 10 months was that Liz might have been pregnant and given birth while she was in the coma. Weird, I know. But so many sequences were repeating that that's what popped into my head.
I thought that very same thing, Tuxie400, you are not too far out with that idea at all! In fact we wondered about that about a week ago, didn’t we?
Ohhhh... that would be so like the episode... (what was it called?) where he kidnapped women, put them in a coma, impregnated them, and adopted out the children... Ok, It wouldn't be so like it, but in a weird way it would be.

yes. exactly. though i don't think they'll go that route, the comparison is intriguing. Is it a parallel with KR or Liz's mother (if she is not KR I mean).

lara1 · 11/18/2017 10:11 pm

Brittany wrote:
I've figured that the 10 months thing would bring the story timeline up to the present (or close). Basically from the point of 3.19 to 5.08 the time passed isn't in line with the present day. The season 4 finale and the season 5 premiere happened within a couple of days of each in their universe and the timeline has been passing pretty slowly this season (a couple of months at most, I would imagine).

I hope they don't do the whole Liz was pregnant while in a coma thing. She already has one child whose life she has missed out on for close to 50% of the time between the initial fake death and kidnapping thing, now the 10 month coma and spent a lot of her time being raised by a nanny. Not to mention, grief and raising a newborn don't mix well.

Brittany I agree with you in principle. the thing that is weird to me though is that the newspaper Red was reading the other week (with the apt ads) was current if I remember correctly, and the newspaper articles they have shown (with the Leeds explosion and last week, which I remember said Nov 7 2017), and Tom's toe tag brought us up to date before the 10 months. So its odd and they will do another time jump. so I guess we will need to suspend disbelief....
although I think its cool, and a good plot device. Its still odd, when you are looking into a future date, rather than say, 10 months having elapsed in a story you are telling in the past.

Last edited by lara1 (11/18/2017 10:16 pm)

lara1 · 11/18/2017 10:15 pm

Tuxie400 wrote:
I just rewatched the scene in the car and in the hospital on the NBC site. Why do you think Red stayed in the car rather than go in the hospital? I don't think it was because he thought he'd be recognized. I think he just couldn't bear to watch Liz die again. And I think he was struggling with so much guilt at the point that he was immobilized.

I'm wondering if now, having lost Liz twice, if he will be more forthcoming with her. It's hard for me to believe that even after bringing that much violence into her life, that he wouldn't be able to be honest with her.

Tuxie400 - I asked the same question. To be with her or at least near her. I tend to agree with you that he could not bear it, and it was both of them too, and what a huge catastrophe, even if he did warn Tom off.

lara1 · 11/18/2017 10:23 pm

Brittany wrote:
What I believe I read somewhere was that this episode was supposed to air on 11-22 but moved up when the premiere got moved up a week and that they must have missed the date. But it wasn’t shown on tv was it? Just the promo pics?

Yeah, the cynic is me says they just got it wrong or someone muddled up the dates in the scripts. I'm not sure they would have set up a toe tag two months ago, way before filming the ep. By the time they came to filming, the season was already in its run. Though I suppose it could have been filmed out of order. But HW as you say it was edited out.

lara1 · 11/18/2017 10:29 pm

I agree that 10 months give them the time to fast forward and see where Red's empire is at etc.
I still do think its an odd period of time. Wy not just a year? I still think it may be drawing a parallel to something else that has happened in the storyline.

I would be shocked if they suddenly produced a virtual newborn and said, hi Liz, meet your son/daughter. Anything is possible I guess, it did make me think though. still think its in the storyline for a reason.

lara1 · 11/18/2017 10:35 pm

I need to re-watch - its going to be hard to do though. But I do wonder if Garvey represents the half of Red that is evil. I still think he resembles Red for a reason (and I know its only approximate). The doll he picked up reminded me of the doll in fire house. And I think Red had a book about dolls in the flat.

Was the little toy on the floor of the apt during the ambush a little doll of Agnes'? That was shown in close up.

Need to think some more. As if I don't do enough of that already! LOL

lara1 · 11/18/2017 10:55 pm

I think what would be cool with the ten month jump (which takes us up to around the premiere date of a season 6, if there is one), is to now go back with the rest of the episodes and work forward so that by the time of a season 6 premiere, we are essentially all caught up with the reveal that happened this week.

I don't think they are doing that though because it means Liz would be basically absent (apart from some kind of flashbacks) and they'd have to know that a season 6 was confirmed to do so.
But I do think it would be a cool idea......

Last edited by lara1 (11/18/2017 10:56 pm)

Big Badd Bazzer · 11/19/2017 12:00 am

I think Ryan Eggold would be fantastic on a number of current TV programs (as either the 1st or 2nd lead male):

1. Navy Seals - of Boreanaz decides to pack it in
2. Criminal Minds - as a young profiler, replacing Joe Mantegna

I think his best bet is working his way onto some action movies.

Tuxie400 · 11/19/2017 12:18 am

lara1 - In addition to mildly resembling one another, Red and Garvey think alike. Garvey easily figured out what direction Red and Tom were going. I still don't understand how Garvey and his goons found Tom at the Keen apartment. I know the suitcase tag had Elizabeth Keen's address on it, but Garvey seemed to no idea Elizabeth Keen and Tom were related. Did he just get lucky with a hunch to go there?

Last edited by Tuxie400 (11/19/2017 12:22 am)