The Blacklist Refugees » The Suitcase

Tuxie400 · 11/13/2017 11:32 pm

Eastcoast - Yes, Dennison did say "find him" in relation to Oleander. That's why we all thought it was a male person after that episode. You make a good point about there not being a funeral or a grave shown for Kaplan.

Eastcoast · 11/14/2017 3:11 am

I really find it odd for a Major Character not to have anything shown. Speaking of graves. Did anyone else think it was strange when Liz said, I THINK Mera is buried here? They didn't show her funeral either, but you would think she wouldn't have to wonder. I think the writers should have left that word out.

I still wonder who is in Liz's grave?

lara1 · 11/14/2017 1:40 pm

I guess I'm OK with not knowing about the suitcase for now. I'm still really intrigued by everything spinning around it. I kind of think the action tomorrow night will sort of eclipse our wondering about the specific identity in the suitcase. NBC is tweeting some intense things. I just hope hope its not another fake death. It will kind of undermine some of the trust in the writers. for me, anyway.

11/16/2017 7:52 am

Does anyone else think the writers are keeping their options open on who is in the suitcase, possibly depending on if they get renewed? Sometimes I wonder. Everything is so vague it would be any number of factors.

Tatiana · 11/16/2017 9:22 am

Brittany wrote:
Does anyone else think the writers are keeping their options open on who is in the suitcase, possibly depending on if they get renewed? Sometimes I wonder. Everything is so vague it would be any number of factors.

Yep

lara1 · 11/16/2017 10:54 am

Agree - I think it potentially gives away a huge amount.

Ryan did say in one of the interviews that they told him the direction it was going but not everything. I read that to mean, enough to give him direction as to how to play the scene.

So:

-the suitcase is highly valuable to Red
-Red has told Tom that it will hurt Liz. But is that true?
-Kaplan thought it enough to separate them that the "truth" come out - the real reason Red came back into her life
-Garvey (or who he is working for) knows the value and knows a CODIS search was done
-Garvey will either hold it over Red's head, or is he using it to lure Red? He seemed most intent on finding Red rather than disrupting things from afar
-Tom could not wait to tell Liz and I conclude that he thought it would not hurt her, rather give her answers

So now I have no idea who it could be? But those bones are sure traveling around....

11/16/2017 11:08 am

The non-threat to Liz was interesting...she didn't even seem to be a factor in the ordeal with the exception that she busted in on Tom being tortured. So either Garvey doesn't know her importance to Red or doesn't care. Seeing as he didn't say anything beyond defining her as 'the wife', I'm going with Garvey not realizing she's important to Red or knowing about the DNA Cooper ran (which makes sense because it was run through a private lab..it would also make me believe that he doesn't work for a level of the FBI that would have been informed by Cooper about the results).

After watching last night's episode, I am feeling like they are purposely being vague to leave options open. And Tom's reaction to the DNA test on the bones tells me it isn't just some random stranger in there. It's a name or connection that's known somehow. Garvey's involvement throws me off--he wants to find Red and says there are others who would...doesn't even seem to consider or know about Liz. And I can only imagine that the bones of the person would trigger a larger force. I feel more in the dark that ever on this than ever.

Honey West · 11/16/2017 11:11 am

Didn’t he say the paper said "Darth Vader"?

Good list of points about the suitcase and bones. I think they know who the bones belong to.
Maybe they confirm Red's statement in the pilot "everything about me is a lie."

So, Red said the bones need to be lost to the sands of time. Maybe they are much older than we think? A famous missing person?

They must be valuable kept as a whole (although they seem to be an incomplete skeleton) otherwise why not just burn them, grind them up, or otherwise more completely destroy them?

lara1 · 11/16/2017 11:23 am

HoneyWest - agree that they are valuable to Red to "have". Someone else made this point also on the episode thread (sorry forgot who that was). If the bones are so dangerous or a threat to Red, why not destroy them? Because maybe they are more valuable to have. Kind of like the fulcrum. Ownership maybe equals power.

Which raises the question, do they have value to anyone else?

lara1 · 11/16/2017 11:27 am

Brittany #107 - good points on LIz. Garvey didn't seem to know anything about her. He just knows the skeleton has value to Red. And very good point on the Red DNA. Because if Cooper hadn't sent that to a private lab, they might be in CODIS. I don't know enough about CODIS to state that as fact, but I'm assuming that's a possibility.

I also tend to think Tom put 2 + 2 together quickly. And, once he put everything together, he did not hesitate a minute. He had no doubt that he had to tell Liz. So whatever it is, he felt it was pretty black and white whether he should tell her. Not that it helps us to figure it out, LOL!

Last edited by lara1 (11/16/2017 11:27 am)

lara1 · 11/16/2017 11:30 am

Also - interesting to me, Tom asked Liz to meet him at the house asap and to bring Agnes. So why would he want to meet at the house (although I've no idea whether it was closer or farther from where they both were at the time), and with Agnes. It wasn't necessary to have Agnes there to tell Liz whatever he was going to tell her. Could it be, his plan was for them to pack a suitcase and leave? I guess we'll never know. But his wanting to have Agnes there was otherwise odd to me.....

Last edited by lara1 (11/16/2017 11:30 am)

Tuxie400 · 11/16/2017 11:56 am

lara1 wrote:
Also - interesting to me, Tom asked Liz to meet him at the house asap and to bring Agnes. So why would he want to meet at the house (although I've no idea whether it was closer or farther from where they both were at the time), and with Agnes. It wasn't necessary to have Agnes there to tell Liz whatever he was going to tell her. Could it be, his plan was for them to pack a suitcase and leave? I guess we'll never know. But his wanting to have Agnes there was otherwise odd to me.....

In the phone conversation, I thought Ryan asked to Liz to have Rosa take Agnes. I thought that meant Rosa would take Agens away from their home. But maybe he wanted them all to flee Red. I looked at the script this morning, and it's really not clear.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (11/16/2017 11:59 am)

Tuxie400 · 11/16/2017 12:04 pm

Brittany wrote:
The non-threat to Liz was interesting...she didn't even seem to be a factor in the ordeal with the exception that she busted in on Tom being tortured. So either Garvey doesn't know her importance to Red or doesn't care. Seeing as he didn't say anything beyond defining her as 'the wife', I'm going with Garvey not realizing she's important to Red or knowing about the DNA Cooper ran (which makes sense because it was run through a private lab..it would also make me believe that he doesn't work for a level of the FBI that would have been informed by Cooper about the results).

After watching last night's episode, I am feeling like they are purposely being vague to leave options open. And Tom's reaction to the DNA test on the bones tells me it isn't just some random stranger in there. It's a name or connection that's known somehow. Garvey's involvement throws me off--he wants to find Red and says there are others who would...doesn't even seem to consider or know about Liz. And I can only imagine that the bones of the person would trigger a larger force. I feel more in the dark that ever on this than ever.

Yes, I find it interesting that Garvey didn't know who Liz was. Cooper was going to tell his new boss, so Garvey can't be connected to the new boss. I have a feeling that Garvey has been holding the bones over Red for 10 months and blackmailing Red to give him Blacklisters he can take down to build his own mega empire.

We didn't get a clue as to whether Red knew Garvey either. I'm also left in the dark about where this is doing. I fear Liz will go all dark and twisty though, and I think that would turn me off.

lara1 · 11/16/2017 12:09 pm

Tuxie400 #112 - thanks for that. Its possible I mis-heard that. I don't think Agnes was there. So if Tom asked her to be taken away, that was good. Or else, they (Rosa and Agnes) did not arrive yet.

Honey West · 11/16/2017 12:38 pm

lara1 wrote:
Tuxie400 #112 - thanks for that. Its possible I mis-heard that. I don't think Agnes was there. So if Tom asked her to be taken away, that was good. Or else, they (Rosa and Agnes) did not arrive yet.

My take, after watching a second time already (okay, I was trying to get a late dinner during the beginning and watch at the same time - nothing like a burnt grilled cheese sandwich!) and I thought Tom wanted Agnes out of the house. After all, people had already died over those bones, so he knew the danger.

Honey West · 11/16/2017 12:53 pm

Let’s see, the dna for the bones was in CODIS. The search triggered Garvey's involvement. That would indicate that he either works for a government entity who monitors access to CODIS, or else a non-government entity such as a foreign power or Cabal-like group who also has operatives in place who monitor that access. The question is does Garvey work for someone else or is he the boss of this group? I would be more surprised if Red does NOT know him. So is Garvey doing this on his own and for what purpose. Control over Red, but to use the control for what purpose? His own personal power or on behalf of someone or something else?

11/16/2017 1:02 pm

I wonder how Kaplan’s plans have been screwed up by Tom going off script? Was he supposed to be referred to Oleander via Dennison after he gave Liz the bones and then it would just involve Liz? Was she ever anticipating any of this? Would she have done it this way? JB said her not knowing about the Red-Liz DNA test would impact things. Was this what he meant?

Tuxie400 · 11/16/2017 1:29 pm

Honey West wrote:
Let’s see, the dna for the bones was in CODIS. The search triggered Garvey's involvement. That would indicate that he either works for a government entity who monitors access to CODIS, or else a non-government entity such as a foreign power or Cabal-like group who also has operatives in place who monitor that access. The question is does Garvey work for someone else or is he the boss of this group? I would be more surprised if Red does NOT know him. So is Garvey doing this on his own and for what purpose. Control over Red, but to use the control for what purpose? His own personal power or on behalf of someone or something else?

These are good observations! I'm thinking Garvey does know Red because he didn't want him to hear his voice until they met in person. He wanted Tom to set up the meets twice. After Tom called Red the first time, he already had the number. Garvey could have called Red himself.

Honey West · 11/16/2017 1:39 pm

Tuxie400, that is why I am thinking that Garvey could have been one of the conspirators on fire night. Maybe he was only a lower level thug at the time, and was only "muscle" , but he could have been there.

stackman74 · 11/16/2017 2:42 pm

The only theory I can come up with is that the bones are either the real Reddington or the real Elizabeth. I think the writers want us to believe it is Liz's mom. The other option is it could be Liz's REAL mother.

I am not able to understand how the bones being from anyone else can be this important.