I've been thinking about our discussions here over the past couple of days about Red, Liz, Kirk and what Red wants from Dr Shaw.    (Interesting that one of Red's aliases is Bill Kershaw but I think that's just a bit of fun)

The patent application that Red wanted had two inventor names.  One person was from Santa Fe, the other from Raleigh.  Does anyone remember which town Sylvia (?) Bloom was from?  I'm interested because Santa Fe is home to Los Alamos, and while both Los Alamos and the Raleigh Research Triangle are both long established research centers and both do research into medical and biotech, Los Alamos clearly has its nuclear research mandate and is involved in defense strategy.  

While I know that Dr. Shaw's research revolves around DNA and, if I understand it correctly, the ability to modify DNA so that it affords protection or cure from disease within someone's own genes, I keep coming back to the nuclear.  Honey West and others have speculated about whether Kirk was involved in some kind of radiation accident or exposure.  So a Los Alamos link would be interesting, if in fact, exposure to radiation has either brought forward or exacerbated Kirk's condition.   I think it may have been Tuxie400 (sorry can't remember exactly) who pointed out the name of the ship where Dr. Shaw conducted her experiments (Marie Curie) and how Curie died of aplastic anemia which may have been linked to the radiation experiments she did.

So I wonder if this is all tied up in some way?  Although I may be knitting together a multi armed sweater here!  LOL

And if Red wants to save Kirk, why?  Is there a family connection that makes Red hesitate?  What if Kirk was not on Red's list not only because he did not want Kirk and Liz to meet, but because of Red's history with Kirk.  Reminds me of Scottie in some ways.  Why, after Red got what he wanted from Halcyon didn't he kill her?  She was in some ways directly responsible for the accident that brought on Liz's "death".  Was it Red's loyalty to or deference for his friend Howard?   Or did Red also have plans for her - in other words was she worth more to him alive than dead?

So here, is Red not touching Kirk (unless necessary) out of deference to someone; is he related to Kirk, does he want Kirk alive as part of his plan? Maybe Red didn't realize how insane (in my view) Kirk had become over Liz until that rooftop event when Kirk was going to leap off the ledge rather than have the child know Red.  (Whaaaat?  Now just what was that all about????  what does Kirk think is so evil about Red, or was it purely rage and jealousy??)

Just some idle thoughts I had on a long bus ride back to NY today!  LOL  

lara1 wrote:

 Come to think of it, how did Red know that Harold was in the hospital?  I'm not sure Liz mentioned that - but Red wanted Harold to be safe, so he must have known Harold was there.....hmmmmmm
Its going to be hard to deliver something on all of these story lines in the remaining 40 minutes!  

Was Harold still at the hospital at the end? I thought Red told Liz to call Harold and then get out because men were coming. I got the idea that he was not still there and had maybe gone back to the Post Office or home by then.

And about the DNA results being tampered with. That's a good question because the excuse that Liz was given was that all of those bus crash victims were causing delays. But they weren't real victims, so how much of a delay could they have been causing, unless that doctor was in on it, too?

Agree about the 40 minutes to tell the stories. I suspect we will still have a lot of loose ends because they DO want us to come back in January! LOL!

Honey West #143.  I wondered if the doctor was on someone's payroll.  Well it would be kind of a twist if someone manipulated the hospital test results to either stop Liz or stop Kirk, and it wasn't necessary.  Another question (more questions!!!) for me would then be, why did whomever altered the DNA test (if it was altered) feel it necessary to do so. and what did they know or not know....
Ah the intrigue.....!  

Last edited by lara1 (11/08/2016 11:13 pm)

Honey West wrote:

lara1 wrote:

Honey West #143.  I wondered if the doctor was on someone's payroll.  Well it would be kind of a twist if someone manipulated the hospital test results to either stop Liz or stop Kirk, and it wasn't necessary.  Another question (more questions!!!) for me would then be, why did whomever altered the DNA test (if it was altered) feel it necessary to do so. and what did they know or not know....
Ah the intrigue.....!  

Heehee, lara1! I totally agree. This is a possibly very convoluted question. Maybe we will be introduced to a new Big Bad before too long, who is using Red and Kirk's conflict to their own advantage since the opportunity has come up all of a sudden. We know that Red doesn't operate in a vacuum, he has associates, enemies, etc. Maybe one of those other dots is going to assert itself? And maybe giving us The Answer on Thursday will be because knowing it won't make any difference anymore because the story will move beyond That Question at long last. And I still think that just because we get the answer, maybe Liz doesn't. And she will still be searching for it.

Oh, and maybe this new Big Bad will turn out to have been the one pushing the conflict between Red and Kirk, hoping that one of them would eliminate the other and then they can step in and take over whichever's operation becomes available. You never know! 

Hi Honey West.  That's a really interesting thought.  I too feel that there is a big bad out there  - the top 5 or 6 blacklisters still unaccounted for - and he/she is not Kirk, but I didn't think up the possible scenario you mention.  Yes, Kirk is dangerous to Red and now Liz, but probably not any more dangerous than someone like Berlin or Luther Braxton, though Kirk has more resources.  I think the Big Bad is something altogether different kind of bad, evil on a much larger scale.  

It would indeed be interesting if someone like that was pulling the puppet strings from behind the scenes.    (Too bad we have a green but not Red emoji - then again green is one of the Christmas colors, LOL!)

Edied to add:  also been thinking of Katarina a lot for some reason.....what if Red had Velov looking for Katarina through a third party? Velov didn't know Red, not met him before - that Velov knew of - especially when Red grilled Velov and bought his "silence".  Or, Red may have thrown off Velov's search way back when by planting the photo of Liz in that Pargue hotel.  Something like that, because Red seemed very taken aback when Liz flashed that photo from Velov in Red's face back in Season 3 and looked like he wanted to say something to her but then didn't.  It would be wild if Katarina turns out to be the Big Bad though based on Cape May that doesn't seem likely.  Unless the Katarina we are seeing in flashbacks isn't the real Katarina,  LOL!  Well no more crazy theories tonight, I'm having to go to sleep for an early AM start tomorrow....
 

Last edited by lara1 (11/09/2016 12:34 am)

Eastcoast wrote:

lara1 and honey west,

I looked but cant remember which one of you mentioned that Shaw was looking  through stuff and I did notice that myself.  So, it is a little out there but what if Red is not only looking for a cure for Kirk, but looking for KR???   Just a thought?

Hi eastcoast - I mentioned that - and Honey West may have as well - the bunch of cardboard boxes with piles of paper.  the thing that was a little bit odd is that the papers in the boxes weren't ring binders or actual files in folders (from what we could see), rather thick bunches of papers clipped together with those large black clips.  Not sure what to make of it, whether it was scientific research or just information that had been gathered.  I tried to see if the writing on any of the boxes could give us a clue to the age of the materials, but I could not see anything like that....

re Katarina I think anything is possible!   Do we actually know what the patent application was for, exactly? or only in general what Dr. Shaw's prior research (and presumably current research) had been.  What if that patent was not that exactly, but something different but related that came out of her former research?

I need to watch again, maybe the subject of the application is stated somewhere in the episode.....

I can't believe its the fall finale tomorrow!  Seems like the season just got underway.....

I've also heard rumblings again that the show will go on hiatus til March.  its not official and no idea if it is actually true or not - that rumor was circulating a month or so ago but more recently I read about a more "usual" return in Jan, then Redemption in Feb.  I know that they have filmed episodes 9 and 10 and don't think they have started filming Redemption yet.  I hope we get a definitive answer from the network soon.  Personally I would not like a 4 month hiatus after the season just got going ....but trust there is a plan.
 

Last edited by lara1 (11/09/2016 10:40 am)

I'm fairly certain that the show-runners will leave us with many unanswered questions plus a massive cliff-hanger - if the rumours of a 3 month (or more) hiatus are true. CBS killed off one of the greatest shows in network tv history (Person of Interest) with erratic scheduling and untimely breaks. When CBS finally figured out Person of Interest was a rogue show about massive surveillance it decided to bounce the show around like a basketball.
I know NBC has far fewer hit shows - so I suspect they'll be far more careful about the Blacklist. One can only hope!

BBB #151 - Not sure if you saw it yet, but in the spoiler EW article I posted yesterday, JB mentions a return in January.   hope so!!!

Honey West #152 - interesting thoughts.  Maybe we will find out if Kirk and Red are related in some way.  I looked at the promo again, and Liz might just be sitting in Red's lab for Dr Shaw too.  Its hard to tell, it could be Kirk's but it also resembles Red's set up.  I guess we'll find out whether that scene is before or after she is swapped for Red by Kirk....

It looks like Kirk and Liz will be "escaping" from the hospital in an ambulance (or fake ambulance) with maybe Tom or others in pursuit .  Nice parallel to the ambulance scene in 3.18 with Red and Liz in the ambulance fleeing Solomon.

Its really interesting how there are all these kind of parallel mirror images between Kirk and Red and scenes involving Kirk/Red/ and/or Liz in Season 4.  Lots of kind of parallels to things in other seasons too particularly season 1.  All of that heavy imagery makes me wonder whether there is some major twist coming up.   Hopefully, and one we never saw coming!  LOL

 

Last edited by lara1 (11/10/2016 9:55 am)

hi Eastcoast, thanks for all of that detail!  I can never seem to get a good screenshot even on my computer.  So we know in the promo shot that Liz is in Kirk's lab/medical room

A further thought - what if Kirk is not only doing a DNA test, but having his own doctors procced to do the stem cell therapy because he's so insanely convinced that Red faked the test - and Kirk is desperate - if I recall didn't the doctor at the hospital say he had only like a day to live without the therapy?  hmmm   And, Honey West, that would line up with your thought that maybe Red's comment about how he is the one Kirk wants, refers to Red being a genetic match in some way.....

Honey West - I re-watched ep 7 last night.  the boxes and files that Dr. Shaw is reviewing at the end of the episode - I don't see the boxes there when Red first brings her there and explains to Dr. Shaw what it is.  Also, when the FBI raids the ship, Ressler walks into a room and behind him are some cardboard storage boxes with what looks like files, too.  So Dr. Shaw may have taken some boxes with her or Red may have provided them, either is possible.  The episode summary says that Red wants her to locate a former patient....hmmmm.  No idea who that could be but I hope it has a twist.  I'm in a twisty mood today, LOL!  

Last edited by lara1 (11/10/2016 10:58 am)

Tuxie400, I agree with what you say. I seriously doubt it's Fitch, LOL! I just liked his character and like to throw him into the mix once in awhile, if just for grins.  (grin) and with your last paragraph I always go back to the Pilot and Red's statement "Everything about me is a lie." I always took that to mean not just what you read about me, but literally everything. So him being an imposter is certainly plausible because of what he said in the beginning. Just how that is the case will probably remain a question until the end of the show.

Lara1, yes on those comments, too. I noticed that Red and Kirk both had these similar lab setups and found that interesting. Also, Kirk could be doing his own testing to make sure. He's desperate and will try anything. And the boxes probably are older patient files maybe?

Eastcoast you crack me up! Miss Creepy indeed! (wassat)

So I have one last thing to post for Who's Your Daddy? And it was my idea of how this could play out if, indeed, Liz gets her answer tonight, since now the EPs have said it's Liz who gets the answer. I will post under that topic heading, though, in case anyone doesn't really want one more last theory. LOL!  (shocked) (whistling)

Hmm I don't know about the HighLights being a clue, especially Red's reaction to Dembe and Dembe having his handsome smirk afterward. Almost like two kids challenging each other to who can find it faster. But if it is a clue that would be most welcomed if it leads to more.