The Blacklist Refugees » Episode 5.05 - Ilyas Surkov

lara1 · 10/25/2017 10:35 pm

Interesting observation on the shoes Brittany. That would certainly fit in with the Wizard of Oz theme

I love deep red shoes. I had a pair that I called my "ruby slippers" and wore to death. I still have them but only wear them for things like taking out the rubbish - as the leather is now literally peeling off them. I have been looking for a replacement pair in vain - perhaps I should ask Megan!

lara1 · 10/25/2017 10:37 pm

Oh and Liz wearing plaid in the graveyard scene. Though I'm not sure plaid means anything other than its another version of the checkerboard/chess board that pops up throughout the series. But it is I believe the first time that Liz has worn plaid. Although as I've commented elsewhere, plaid is very big this fall, its everywhere so it may just be a nod to current fashion! LOL

Eastcoast · 10/26/2017 1:07 am

Tatiana, nice to see you back!

Eastcoast · 10/26/2017 1:08 am

Brittany, I hope your booster worked!

Eastcoast · 10/26/2017 1:43 am

This was a busy episode. The doggy grooming business cover. That is different for him.

From the look on Reds face he must not have had any idea about Tom.
When he called Tom he did dial his number from his phone, right? I just wondered why he suddenly wouldn't have his number in his phone to recognize It? If that is the case I guess the writers didn't think that one through.

So he thinks Kaplan left him the suitcase, wait till he finds out it's Tom.
I felt a little surprised at his response of who would want the suitcase enough to kill for It? I suppose because it was a secret between him and Kaplan. ( not anymore)

At this point I don't know if Pete killed his friend or if he escaped being killed? If he killed him, why not just go back to work? Why change his look And carry a gun?
I want a better look on my rewatch of his hand. I suppose his hand might keep him from work, but he could make up something for that. So I am wondering if someone thinks he is dead and he wants to keep it that way?

Anyway, those are my rambling thoughts for now in the middle of the night.

Tuxie400 · 10/26/2017 7:37 am

About the plaid, Tessa's theory is that it's not necessarily the person wearing plaid that's deceptive, but something in the scene is not what it seems. Tom is the deceptive one.

I didn't notice Liz's ruby slippers at all. I haven't seen the photo of Liz at Meera's grave. I guess that scene got cut.

Eastcoast - I agree with your questions about Pete. I don't think he's Nik's killer, but I think he was the one who moved Nik's body to the vacant lot.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (10/26/2017 7:39 am)

lara1 · 10/26/2017 10:12 am

eastcoast- i think Red dialed the last number Nik called from his phone, which was Tom. I think Red was totally surprised by that. (that Tom was the person Nik last called).

I tend to agree that Pete did not kill Nik. Im not sure he had any motive. Even if Pete wanted to cash in on what he found not sure he needed to kill Nik. My current thoughts are that he was either attacked outside the apt or before Nik got there. Tuxie i like your idea that he may have moved Nik's body. Someone did and it wasnt the guy who killed him. Tom went back to the apt but i think that was after liz told him about Nik. Still he didnt seem totally surprised to hear that Nik was dead. Have to re-watch!

Last edited by lara1 (10/26/2017 10:21 am)

IowaWatcher · 10/26/2017 12:52 pm

I don't think Pete killed Nik, either. I think Pete came home from somewhere and found Nik dead on the floor, and the suitcase gone. I need to re-watch, as well, but I thought whoever killed Nik took the suitcase.

I agree: I think Pete took Nik's body to the vacant lot and will now disappear himself.

I also think Tom will spend the rest of the season looking for Pete and/or Nik's killer and the suitcase.

Patter · 10/26/2017 2:44 pm

I really loved quite a few things about this episode (which I can't really say for ep 1-4).
-Even though Dr. Nick "took" Liz from Red, Red still found and recognized the good that Nick did for his family.
-Dembe
-Tom and Agnes. A teensy tiny part of me always thought Tom could still be bad (S1 Tom), but I think he's proven over and over that is not who he is and he loves Liz and loves their daughter. With all he unpacked on baby Aggy, could she become his sin eater later on? Okay just Therapist.
-Red looking sad/confused by hearing Tom's voice....but then I question this as Tom worked with Kaplan/Liz/Nick before when Liz faked her death.

Things I still have questions about:
-What was with the look Samar gave Aram? I'm trying to remember the scene, but it looked like she was disappointed or pissed off? It lingered.
-So the bad guy was not really the bad guy? The actual bad guy is the guy in Coopers office?So why did he get to leave? And is he still a threat?
-The first 20 seconds of the scene with Liz and Tom canoodling at the funeral she seemed fine, and then all of a sudden turned cold and said she wanted to visit Meera's grave alone. It was like a light switch. I need to listed to that conversation again.
-Last season we assume Kaplan called Tom to pick up the suitcase (since he picked it up). But there also has to be another person because, if I remember correctly, Tom is on the phone and says, "Kaplan's instructions were very detailed" or something like that. I wonder if the person who killed Dr. Nick is the third person that Tom spoke with in s4 finale? And if so, why come after Tom/Pete/Nick now??? Or did I completely miss something in episode 5.1 that says Dr. Nick was the 3rd person? I assumed Nick was pulled in by Tom, and then Nick pulled in Pete.

Honey West · 10/26/2017 3:10 pm

I clearly need to,watch this one again. I was busy and couldn’t give my undivided attention for most of it and missed the first couple of minutes. I can’t get used to this 8 pm start time!

Didn’t catch the Serbia thing at all.

Red seemed genuinely sad when Tom answered the phone. It was the same look as when he found out that Kate had betrayed him. I don’t know if it confirmed his suspicions or if he genuinely didn’t expect Tom to be talking to Nik about anything. So does that mean that he knows something about Pete and the suitcase? Did he know about Nik and the suitcase? I kind of thought that he didn't know about Nik's involvement at all in any of that. But knowing how Red's mind seems to work at making connections between seemingly unrelated facts, maybe it all just clicked into place once he heard Tom's voice. And it made him sad that he now knows that Tom must die and how Liz will react to that, if and when it happens. Plus the fact that he told Tom that if he wanted him dead he would shoot him himself, not have someone else kill him. Oh, we are heading to a very dark place unless we get an unexpected turn before it’s too late.

10/26/2017 4:37 pm

I went back and rewatched some of the more key parts of the episode.
1) I didn't see any mention of how long it has been since the end of the last episode, only the thing Hawkins mentioned about how much money they had earned in just a week. So perhaps the reason Liz got called by the cops (which made no sense to me on first watch) was because they knew he had been missing for a few days/week and she had been asked to be informed if he was found?
2) I was surprised that Red didn't seem to have more information about the suitcase before finding the key in Nik's possession. Had he hit a wall with Dennison and was either listening for whispers of the suitcase or was he planning his explanation to Liz once it got around to her? He didn't seem very surprised by the fact that Nik had the key on him, so perhaps he had started to become suspicious after he saw Nik? And he wondered why someone would kill him. It makes me think Red hasn't considered that they might be able to run a DNA test against the remains. I don't think Red's playing dumb about any of this because there's no reason---Dembe knows the secret and he entrusted him with looking for it, so there's no reason to pretend not to know what's going on, especially when he wants to ensure it doesn't get to Liz.
3) I've felt like Red knew Tom was up to something since he came back from Halcyon but that he didn't know for sure what it was. After seeing his reaction to Tom's voice on the phone, I think he's somewhat surprised and not surprised to find him connected. It was definitely a pained expression. Not because I believe he will kill Tom (unless Liz and Agnes are at risk and there is absolutely no other option), but because he's afraid the suitcase is one step closer to getting to Liz.
4) Aram becoming field trained or whatever he said makes me think it is going to be crucial that he be so for the future. I've been wondering if fall out from Hitchins and the suitcase won't force the entire task force to be on the run, sort of like what we saw with the fake CIA task force or whatever we saw in this episode. Perhaps tracking down Blacklisters on the run because there are a few in the FBI and other alphabet agencies that would prevent them from doing so? Maybe taking down people who set Red up in the past (if he was framed for something in 1990, per speculation)?

I have more suitcase questions, but I'll put that in the suitcase thread.

Last edited by Brittany (10/26/2017 5:08 pm)

Tuxie400 · 10/26/2017 6:28 pm

Patter - It was implied that Dennison (the guy Red killed who supplied the Oleander name) was the person Tom was supposed to call to confirm he picked up the suitcase.You are correct that Nik was pulled in by Tom and Pete was pulled in by Nik.

lara1 · 10/26/2017 7:15 pm

Patter -

Yes I noticed the switch in mood for Liz as well. She went cold as stone on a dime. worth re-listening to what it was exactly that Tom said to her before she "switched"

I noted the thing with Samar also, I think it was after she was rescued and Aram was fussing over her a bit.
It will be hard for those two, Aram gets overly involved and Samar is very strong and independent, and not used to having someone fuss over her and do things for her. She could feel smothered very easily. Only because she is not used to it and probably not used to letting people in. If the writers are good, there can be some really interesting exploration of that vis a vis she and Aram

Good question about the head of the CIA "getting away" with what he did/ is doing. My prediction is that Cooper reporting all of his (bad) activities will go nowhere and may in fact have the reverse effect - turn around and bite Harold and the Task Force. May land them into the trouble (and maybe going on the run) that a couple of folks here have thought may happen.

lara1 · 10/26/2017 7:26 pm

Brittany - I think Red's ears perked up when it was obvious that Nik was already aware that Red is Liz's father. It was clear when Liz said to Nik that Red is "my father" it was not news to him. How then had he heard that? With Nik having been in contact with Tom on the phone and in possession of the suitcase key, I think its clear to Red that at least part of the reason why Nik was killed was something to do with Tom. Red may now feel that Tom has put Liz's life in danger somehow.

I guess the question (well one of the questions, LOL) is whether Red is worried about the suitcase and Liz finding out about it because of what it reveals or because her involvement with it may put her in danger (it could be both). Just some thoughts. It could go so many ways. Red now knows that Nik was killed because of the suitcase. I thought Red's look was shock and then dismay when he heard Tom's voice. Red has to plan his next step carefully. Will he confront Tom or just start to follow his actions? I think they are ramping up to a very intense Fall finale!

10/26/2017 7:40 pm

Good point, Lara. I didn't think about Nik's lack of reaction to the news that Red is Liz's father. Red notices that stuff, even if Liz doesn't. And you're right about his worry about danger, especially now that Nik is dead because of it and when he learns that Tom no longer has the suitcase nor knows where it went.

lara1 · 10/26/2017 7:58 pm

I continue to wonder whether the person who has the interest in the suitcase is the same person behind Liz's recent memory wipe. Learning stuff about Reddington, stuff that no one else can know.

I also continue to ruminate over Leonard Caul. this is going to sound like a really weird observation and my mind does move around in unusual ways sometimes! but someone somewhere posted a freeze frame of the hand around Nik's throat. The hand had what looked like scarring on two of the fingers where they meet the hand. Its the same hand I believe (left) where Caul lost his two fingers. I'm not suggesting that its Caul who killed Nik but I wonder if he's behind both the memory wipe and the suitcase. He didn't come across as a killer though just a very skilled operative. His job was to blend in.

Probably just some fanciful thinking! LOL

Last edited by lara1 (10/26/2017 7:59 pm)

Tuxie400 · 10/26/2017 8:37 pm

lara1 - That's an interesting observation about the hand and fingers that killed Nik. It was too tall of a person to be Caul. He was shorter than Red. Then there's Pete, who looks like his fingers may have been slashed or severed.

lara1 · 10/26/2017 9:23 pm

Tuxie400 - yes,I agree, I don't think it was Caul per se. But whether its symbolic and he is involved in it. Maybe it was just another example of a parallel in the episode.

But Caul did help out Red after Red was shot....then Caul kind of melted away again.And Caul was a Blacklister.....for reasons I never understood.And that was all around the time that Liz's memory was maybe changed again. Then again, maybe not!

EDITED to add: I remember where I saw the photo. Its on the Blacklist Exposed facebook site.

Last edited by lara1 (10/26/2017 9:26 pm)

Big Badd Bazzer · 10/26/2017 10:13 pm

Can't wait 'til Aida meets Glenn - - - - my o my!

Honey West · 10/26/2017 10:50 pm

When I saw Pete’s bandaged hand it reminded me of Leonard Caul losing his fingers. I wonder if the same person(s) are responsible for both? If not the Cabal then maybe someone else from Red's Map of Doom.