lara1 wrote:

A bit of news, not episode related, and sad, but I read today that Michael Massee, the actor who portrayed Karakurt in Season 1, passed away last Thursday (Oct 20).  Just an update for the group.  I posted it here as this is the most active thread at the moment.   

That is sad.  I wish nothing but the very best for his friends and family.  Thanks for the information.  

Tabasko wrote:

It also occurred to me (apologize if this is repetitive) but Kirk himself did say in 4.1 he thought Red was Liz's father at one point, but he had proof that Red was not. So he doesn't even know for sure but for the DNA. But he does seem to believe it pretty strongly, unless he is being sarcastic when he is with Odette alone, but that seems unlikely.

I appreciated the Oingo Boingo song an awful lot!!

I think there's something tricksy going on with the whole DNA deal.  Because it's like there's proof of Liz's biological father, but all signs still point to something being off.  I agree with everyone who says Kirk seemed genuinely surprised by the DNA file results Liz told him about.  Given as such, if he knew he wasn't the father--but then said he had proof that Red wasnt....well, things just aren't adding up quite yet.  In typical Blacklist fashion.  
Oingo Boingo for the win!  I was deliriously happy, truly!  

Patter wrote:

One thing I'm trying to work out is that Red told Cooper that Kirk was his to take care of, but Kirk ends up in the box at the PO. I haven't rewatched, but wasn't it only Red's team who showed up with Liz to rescue Agnes. Even though Red got clipped and regardless of Liz's pleas for answers, why didn't his team take Kirk out when Agnes was placed in Liz's arms?  There has to be more to Red & Kirk's history then just a woman who produced a child. Or did I miss some kind of agreement between Red & Liz?

I think Red won't kill Kirk, because for a period of time Kirk acted as Elizabeth's father.  I think he was willing to kill Kirk when he thought Liz was dead--but not before.  To kill Kirk--a dying man, on borrowed time--now, would do Lizzy more harm than good.  She would hate Red, and with her newly found independence, it would be an unforgivable kind of hatred, unlike her reconciliations with him in the past.  Or at least that's how I'm seeing it.

Hi, I'm deadskie13.  I make a lot of obnoxious posts in a row.  

Okay. A few more bits I picked up on:

Red's peeps toss a white bag over Lebron's head.  I thought it was interesting, since black is usually the Bag Of Death.  

I was quite emotionally distraught between all the Liz is mad at Red!    But then she's not, and it was an act!  :D  But then that was an act, and she is mad at him!    But kind of sort of, and maybe not always!  :D  But maybe!    But no!  :D  And so what I mean is, it was great to see the dynamic between them back up and running.  ^-^

Kirk's assistant lady is obsessed in a creepy kind of way.  o.O

Baz gets a rockstar music entrance!  And Oingo Boingo!  Gah!  I'm still dying in the best way possible over that one!  :D

Interesting that Kirk's people fire to kill Lebron, and not any of Red's people, or The Task Force.

Red in Red form!  Gah!  How we have missed this Red, so!  I feel like this episode managed to hit on each and every thing that we've been missing.  ^-^

The "tethered goat" deal reminded me of Jurassic Park.  I don't know if this was intentional or not, but I probably giggled far too much over it.  (I like dinosaurs.  A LOT.)

Red refers to Samar as "sweetheart".  Kind of interesting, since that was a bit of a pet name in reference to Liz only, so far.  Perhaps he's expanding his paternal instincts to Agent Navabi, as well.  ^-^

Haha!  Slides are sometimes the bane of my existence, too.  Poor old school tech guy!

Kaplan!  Gah!  So, here's the deal:  I think there's a general consensus that everyone likes Mr. Kaplan.  No one wants to see her tortured, right?  Or chained up with some creepy cat for an infinite amount of time.  So I think this needs to move right along.  And I think that what needs to happen, is the bit where Kaplan not only knows how to kill someone in fifty bazillion different ways, but knows how to get away with it.  And so hopefully she's just biding her time before striking.  (And hopefully, hopefully, hopefully, there's still a world in which her and Red can come to terms and work together again.)

Stranger Things!  :D  

Samar and Aram!  :D

Red and Cooper!  :D

So many things to be happy about, this episode!  ^-^

Liz is perfecting her acting this season, and seems to--I don't want to say be "getting smarter" because it implies that she wasn't before.  But she's definitely learning to ride out the waves that Red was talking about in season 3; she's learning to pace herself in the midst of a storm.  She's not all about rushing in, but rather sitting back, and taking the whole picture in, before making any moves.  How very Reddington of her.  ^-^

And if all of that wasn't enough--as if it wasn't enough, that last scene!  Red said, thank you!  :D  And then Liz not only allowed Red to see Agnes, but her and Tom were smiling the whole time.  And then when Liz lays it out--when she says they need their space and such--Red just has the best response, ever:  "I know.  Goodnight, Elizabeth.  Tom."

He included Tom!  If Red were The Grinch, I think this was his heart growing three sizes.  ^-^  This was all so well-played.  :D  I'm super-excited to see how the rest of the season goes.  

So very good to see you posting all of your multiple posts, deadskie13! I do agree with most of your comments. Actually, I can't think of anything I disagree with.  (grin)

Yes, Liz is definitely learning from Red. There was a time when I was thinking that he was grooming her to be his possible successor. Then I thought maybe not when he told her he didn't want her to be like him. But then I went back and thought, well, maybe that's still his plan; he was still going that route but he was planning for her to be the non-killer replacement. Then she up and shot Connolly. I do agree with your observation about Red being a damaged personality. Liz even told him that. He's even admitted it, like right before he killed Liz's parking lot attacker.

I still think Dembe is going to go back to take care of Kate's remains. By giving her a decent burial, it may help to ease his conscience. Only, of course, she will be gone. I am not sure he will tell Red what he's going to do, so he will conveniently be out there alone. He will either find Kate or the Hunter will find him. Either way I think he may be in for his own adventure in the woods with those characters. And it could leave Red on his own without his remaining most trusted associate for awhile. Well, you never know!  (whistling)

deadskie13 wrote:

Patter wrote:

One thing I'm trying to work out is that Red told Cooper that Kirk was his to take care of, but Kirk ends up in the box at the PO. I haven't rewatched, but wasn't it only Red's team who showed up with Liz to rescue Agnes. Even though Red got clipped and regardless of Liz's pleas for answers, why didn't his team take Kirk out when Agnes was placed in Liz's arms?  There has to be more to Red & Kirk's history then just a woman who produced a child. Or did I miss some kind of agreement between Red & Liz?

I think Red won't kill Kirk, because for a period of time Kirk acted as Elizabeth's father.  I think he was willing to kill Kirk when he thought Liz was dead--but not before.  To kill Kirk--a dying man, on borrowed time--now, would do Lizzy more harm than good.  She would hate Red, and with her newly found independence, it would be an unforgivable kind of hatred, unlike her reconciliations with him in the past.  Or at least that's how I'm seeing it.

But he did kill Sam, who acted/was Lizzie's father, also a dying man on borrow time (and keeper of Red's secret???). But I can't remember if Liz knows Red can initiate death by pillow. I binged S1 in like 3-4 days, so I could be getting things mixed up. 

lara1 #149 - I have also wondered when someone would tell Liz how devastated Red was over her "death." I expected it to be Ressler.  Dembe just wouldn't out Red like that. And who knows when Kaplan and Liz will ever be together again. Nik may be dead, for all we know. If the revelation comes, it will come when a character gets exasperated at Liz over her opinion or treatment of Red. As much as Ressler disliked Red in the the beginning of the series, he has come to respect him over time. To hear this from Ressler would have an impact on Liz. 

Remember this little scene in The Thrushes:Ressler: You know, that little act of yours between you and Reddington had me going.
Liz: Oh, it wasn’t an act. I’m only putting up with Reddington and his lies until we get Agnes back. What Liz said to Donald may not sit well with him. He may think she's misinformed and want to set her straight. Don't forget, Ressler also witnessed first hand Red's willingness to lose his freedom again by killing Kirk in revenge for her death.

Aram also knows how destroyed Red was after Liz's demise. He may be the one to tell her that Red didn't think he could go on.

lara1 wrote:

Patter #152.  that is a good point.  Red killed Sam in part to keep him from telling Liz "the truth", whatever that may be.  Liz did find out that Red did that and when confronted about it, Red did confirm to Liz that  yes, he killed Sam.    I guess the difference, as Red explained it to Liz at the time, was that Sam was in great pain and wanted it to end and Sam would never have wanted Liz to know, had he been fully well.  the way I viewed that episode, I understood Sam to have agreed to it with Red, although that is not shown on camera.  but based on the "final" call to Liz and the body language between Red and Sam in the final scene, that is what I concluded.  (if that is right)

Here, Kirk is trying to find a cure and I think also the relationship between Red and Liz has moved on.  Maybe also, what I thought, is does Kirk have "info" on Red, but its the wrong info. so Red is not so concerned.   I don't know.  maybe Red has a larger plan that we haven't seen yet.  And we haven't found out what the "invention" was that Red wanted.  I thought it was perhaps to save Agnes (did Red actually say that?) , but it doesn't seem they needed it.  Unless it would still keep Agnes out of Kirk's grasp permanently.  

I still think that Red wants to kill Kirk, but he has to be presented with the right moment to do so - or create it.

Just my opinion of course  

Edited to Add:  I also wonder about the personal connection between Kirk and Red.  Red always calls Kirk "Constantin" not Rostov, and to me, in a way that harkens back to a past relationship that at one point may not have been so hostile.  Maybe not.  but it seems personal to me.  Whereas Kirk called Red "Raymond" twice, but since then just calls him or refers to him as Reddington, if I'm correct.  So maybe they have a history that at one point was friendlier, something happened, Red is trying to reach back to before that, but Kirk has only hate for Red.  Just some thoughts.

Oh I agree I think Red and Sam could have had an agreement if Sam's health took a turn for the worse. I can't remember what was keeping Liz occupied in the episode. Wasn't Tom outside the hospital and he and Red had a little warning conversation. I really can't remember this one! 

Tuxie400 -  that's interesting about the "little sun" comment. As you note, all of the light stories. Takes me right back to the "hideous fishes" and the daylight story. And Red's south sea gypsy "sun on my face" story.

Then there's the "fire" and all of the flashes of bright light in Liz's fire memories!  Interesting!

Blacklist is now my favourite TV show (obviously Person of Interest was #1 for 5 years, only thing close to TBL is 'Designated Survivor' and that show still in early stages)

My only concern for TBL is that it doesn't morph into Blacklist: Dallas - where everyone is embroiled in some form of topsy-turvy operatic melodrama - and that the bigger 'world spy story' gets subjugated to afterthought status!

That said - Blacklist leads the TV world in having some of the finest recurring and guest stars on its roster. It also has the best male TV actor and character in James Spader's brilliant Reddington. Michael Emerson's Harold Finch (Person of Interest) is a very close second but Spader's Reddington is still active while Person of Interest has retired from network TV.

Other points concerning our cast:

- Who is really Spader's co-star. The credits say its the actress playing Liz - but she was surpassed in acting ability and emotion by almost every member of the main cast - and most of the secondary/guest cast. Megan Boone was a virtual unknown when tabbed for the part - and she's probably shown the most improvement of anyone on the show.
- Spader's recital of lines, sometimes complex ones is unparalleled - Only Michael Emerson did similar work on Person of Interest
- Recurring use of guest/recurring stars has been nothing short of brilliant (ie. Kirk, Christine Lahti, Deirdre Lovejoy, Glen Jellybean, etc.)
- Tom, Mr. Kaplan, Samar & Donald 'By the Book' Ressler have taken a substantial second chair in S.3. We know Tom is going for a spinoff. But the others?
-

Last edited by Big Badd Bazzer (11/03/2016 7:15 pm)