Whoa, deadskie and lara! My mind did not go where yours did: to no fire at all. I think there was a fire involved, as seen in Requiem in Kaplan's recall. But that fire didn't seem to be as devastating nor at Christmas. Cerone said Kaplan's flashbacks were true. I do think what Liz remembered in Braxton and Connolly may have been implanted. Those things in the attic were probably props used in the memory implant. Remember when Liz sees that tall tree out the window in the Braxton memory? Many fans complained there were no trees around those close-together homes in the Requiem TV fire coverage. Trees would make sense at Tansi Farms. 

deadskie - I guess Red or Krilov could have given Masha/Liz the scar, or even Katarina,  I would hate to think any of them would have intentionally burned a child.  

lara - There have been all those connections to apples in the series that you site. The apple is a symbol of sexual seduction, so would it not be a symbol for Katarina?  It's also a symbol for knowledge and sin. Kaplan wanted to give Liz the knowledge of Red's sin that would finally turn her against him. 

I support the idea of the two girls, but I think Masha and Liz are the same person.

 

Eastcoast #400 - "Both Liz and Kate said 30 years that she had worked for Red.... 

And, is it possible that since they had Copper bring up that he was torchered that the scars could have come from that?  Just something to think about...
It would explain a lot of things."

So both Liz and Kate said she had worked for Red for 30 years. Is that just a rounding of years, or is it accurate? That would be about how long ago Kaplan had taken the nanny job. 

Red could have gotten the burn scars in some other way than on fire night, during the Seaduke torture session or in one of his other misadventures.

 

Last edited by Tuxie400 (5/28/2017 10:35 am)

I am beginning to look at 1987 as a significant time, perhaps not one event, but a series of events which chanced Raymond Reddington.

It's safe to say Fire night stimulates more questions than answers. The fact that Kirk says there was no fire; the news reports on the tv shows a series of row houses, not a single family home near a Christmas Tree lot; Katarina pulls Masha from the fire, not her father. There's so many unsolved questions. As Daniel Cerone says, 'For questions regarding house fire, please be patient. That story will continue to evolve but be explained.'

What troubles me is their reference to '30 years ago' that does not synch up with what we've been shown so far: ie, Kaplan says when I started working for Red 30 years ago (1987) but Requiem implies it was somehwhere after 1990, probably 1991 or 92... which is closer to 25 years ago. I don't think our Kate Kaplan would miss that kind of detail.

 

OK, I've only got a few minutes, but let me get this out there.

I believe in the imposter theory, and I'll use the convention "Reddington" for the original and "Red" for the imposter. Both were in the American intelligence service, but Red wasn't in the Navy. For now, they could be brothers or cousins, but they wouldn't have to be.

There was a plan to create an international master criminal, someone who could move money for American black ops around and otherwise serve as a "front" for American interests. Reddington was being groomed for that. Then he either went rogue (or it was made to look like he went rogue) and it was up to Red to bring him down. Liz/Misha was an F2 of the warrior gene project (her mother was an F1), and she shot and killed Reddington, perhaps at Tansi Farms, and killing was a part of her training, so her memories had to be wiped.

Reddington was married to Naomi. I think Jennifer was Naomi's daughter from a first marriage. I think it was an arranged marriage, maybe to boost Reddington's career.

Red and his wife (unknown woman) had one of the girls (maybe 2?) from the warrior gene program -- maybe they were all clones -- all looked alike -- Liz is one of them and reminds Red of "Bubble girl" (or Ballerina girl if they are the same). "Bubble girl" and "Ballerina girl" were killed/abducted on Christmas: Red didn't know what happened to them.

After Reddington was killed, Red assumed his identity, but the American government wasn't dealing fairly with Red, so he went rogue (or appeared to go rogue) after making sure Liz was safe.

Sam . . . the best I can come up with is that his brother/father was in intelligence. Sam was the black sheep for the family, but anyone in trouble could go to him in Nebraska because it was a safe place to hide. (I know, I'm reaching).

Tom is also a part of the warrior gene program. He could be one of Liz's "brothers," but NBC won't allow that, so he's was just a part of that program. Something happened, and they let those children go into ordinary homes.

So, Red is NOT Liz's father, but he feels attached to her because Bubble girl/Balleria girl is gone -- whether there are 2 girls or 3 girls, they all look alike. Reddington is Liz's real father. Reddington is dead. I don't think KR is dead, though, unless she was replaced by an imposter.

And now it's my turn to give myself a headache from all of this.

So, this is a very fast write-up of my theory of everything. It needs to be refined, and I'm probably wrong about a lot of things.


 

Tuxie400 #403 and Tatiana - that 30 years bugs me.  Kaplan met with Red in Amarillo way after 1987 - if the fire was in 1989, Red said Katarina killed herself in 1990.   then, Kate meets Annie, they drive/travel cross country to Texas.  They then have a life in Texas, then Annie is tragically and horrifically killed, Kaplan is hospitalized for - what I think is - 6 months.  She's then back on the job when Sam comes by.  And we are led to believe that Red is already well on his way to building his empire, I think we guessed it was around 1994 from what he said to Kate, and Kate's comments about him.

In any event, even if it wasn't 1994, but one or two years earlier, that still is not 1987.  So I don't get the 30 year reference at all.  

Lara, yes, it would have to be 1994 or very close to it. But Daniel Cerone says Kaplan's memories are true.

I really hope they clarify soon. It's bugging me.

Regarding theories I think Raymond is one person. I remember the show runners saying it's actually a simple story.

So what do you all think of katarina, is she dead? Alive? In hiding?

Tatiana wrote:

So what do you all think of katarina, is she dead? Alive? In hiding?

I have always thought she was dead.  Up until these last few episodes.  Ah!  Such exquisite frustration!  
 

Lara, Red could certainly be Seaduke, and he could also be a Russian replacement.

What I keep coming back to is Naomi saying to Liz, "He's not who you think he is," although whether that means the whole construct of Reddington as a super criminal is fake or the man himself is a fake (Red or Seaduke), I have no idea.

Honey West, Thanks! That's my first award here.  (-;

Tatiana, maybe it was you who told me Kirk sent the painting, not KR. That was my main evidence for KR being alive. I'll have to keep hunting for clues, but I agree with whomever first wrote that KR was probably picked up by a boat while she was pretending to drown herself.

If those bones are KR's then there is the question of how she died and how she came to be in a suitcase. But I'm still not buying that she's dead.

I have no evidence from dialogue, but I think Kaplan was going to take Liz to KR when they had that "choose him or choose the truth" conversation. If that's the case, it's possible that either Reddington or Red actually tried to drown KR, but she escaped. Now, a twist might be that Red (or Reddington) killed her and she was replaced by someone else and went into hiding, so the woman Kaplan was taking Liz to see wasn't the real KR but the replacement.

I dunno. Best I can do at the moment  . . .  we have a lot to chew on! I'm looking forward to reading everyone's thoughts, and when I've had more sleep, I'll refine this theory and put it in the theory section.

Last edited by IowaWatcher (5/28/2017 9:01 pm)

lara1 wrote:

Tuxie400 #401 and 402.  The "there was no fire" is an idea I am kicking around.  If "liz" was at the fire, what was the point of re-creating an artificial one?  I think the biggest questions I now have are what others seem to have as well - the location of the fire on the TV news did not seem to correspond to the fire memories, inside or out.  The TV house was "downtown" and seemed like a row house or townhouse, it even looked connected to the others (but that could be wrong, they may just have been close together).
I also didn't see any bay windows or other windows that corresponded to the architecture of what we saw of inside fire house (IMO).  So did the fire memory have to be "constructed" because Liz was never there at all - or maybe was outside the house already when the fire began?  I am still thinking through this....

And if the Christmas things were props, that opens up whether the "downtown" fire even happened at Christmas.  There were no obvious signs of the holiday, although it was winter (snow on ground)

I really am beginning to think its some sort of magic trick, the illusion that works because you don't see the obvious reason why it works.  That's not to say I want to know, however!

I thought the reason for recreating the fire was to block Masha/Liz's  memories of her parents, what really happened on fire night, and to protect her innocence. The fire is such a cornerstone of the mythology, that I have trouble thinking it never really happened. But with The Blacklist who knows?