Apologies, folks! We don't know how the topic got closed, but we figured out how to open it again!

Honey West wrote:

Apologies, folks! We don't know how the topic got closed, but we figured out how to open it again!

I probably fat-fingered it in the middle of the night when I woke up
I'm so sorry.... 

Thank you Tatiana and Honey West for reopening the thread. Maybe the forces from Katarina's past closed it. Or perhaps it was Reddington - because we were getting too close to the truth. 

Last edited by Tuxie400 (5/24/2017 12:32 pm)

Tuxie400:

"In the Requiem flashback before Red turned himself in, he said forces from Katarina's past were circling Liz like a pack of wolves in the night. It makes me think of Dom's statement in the Artax Network that he fled into the woods to "get away from the pack." I think both the U.S. and Russia were trying to find out what happened to Katarina, and I think the murder of Viktor Fokin was related to those closing in on Katarina's past. I still suspect the driver who brought Kate to interview for the nanny job as being some kind of operative. Maybe he knew a lot of Katarina's personal affairs. And how does Seaduke fit into all this?"

Interesting thoughts.  There may be a connection between Dom, the pack, and Katarina - maybe they were after Dom as well.  What stood out to me in Red's discussion with Dom in the finale was that Dom did not know Kate, nor did Kate know about Dom.  He was a very well guarded secret.  Especially from Kate - as she both knew Katerina and was Red's right hand person and ultimately, confidante, she did not know about Dom.  Well several of us thought that - that Kate did not know everything.

When Liz read from KR's journal, the statement "I wonder what my father would think about being in love with an American" or something like that. It made it sound as though she had not communicated with her father for a long time - like he was no longer alive - though Dom is - or was estranged - but perhaps she simply denied his existence to many, for his protection?

You make an interesting point about Fokin.  I think its worth re-watching those episodes.  Maybe two warring factions each after Katerina's secrets.  Now that we know it was forces after Katerina, as well as Red (as we were first told), re-watching with that perspective may lead to something.

Interesting thoughts on the chauffeur.  Some of us speculated about Red.  It could have been an operative "watching" what went on in the house.  Maybe even Seaduke himself.  But some sort of spy, perhaps.

EDITED to ADD:  the fact that it was shown to us that Kate did not know everything, may also be there to help us relate back to Requiem.  That is Kate's version of events and some things don't match up.  I think that's because there were things that she did not know, and therefore are happening without her knowledge, and not yet shown on screen.

Last edited by lara1 (5/24/2017 11:30 am)

Rori wrote:

"As scene fades to black with Tom holding my grandmother's suitcase, I was thinking that whatever he is inclined to do with that bag of bones must be informed by his recent experiences with his own uber-functional FOA (family of origin). What a dissonant time that has been! Good-Mommy/Bad-Daddy...or is it vice-versa?? Nothing turned out to be what it seemed for him; so how will his current state incline him regarding his role in Liz's blood-parent-unravelling-mysteries process.
I'm inclined to think it might make him more vigilant in protecting her. I do not believe there is anything nefarious about his being the person Kaplan chose to get the suitcase. Some people on the Internets seem to think this indicates something chronically creepy about Tom-Jacob. But I think Kaplan leaving him with this task is very organic, given what they've gone through in the past "year" especially. She has simply passed the "Protect Masha/Elizabeth" baton onto a natural successor." 

Hi Rori - welcome back!  Enjoyed reading your post.  Interesting thoughts on Tom.  I think Tom was the "confidante" Kate mentioned.  He says to whoever he is speaking to on the phone that "Kaplan's instructions were very specific", something like that.  To me, that involves the next step of whatever it is he needs to do.  I wonder if he had been working with her for a while, or only at the end.  Though events with his Mom and Dad probably kept him too busy to be that involved with Kaplan until now.  I also think at the time of that phone call, Liz hadn't connected with him yet about Red being her father....

Although I'm not sure it was Liz whom he was speaking to.  It could be.  That scene reminded me a lot of Season 1, when we didn't know what to make of Tom - was he good or bad, what was his agenda?

I also wonder whether the suitcase is purely for Liz's protection, or revenge on Red.  At the end, I believe Kate was not thinking very clearly she was so focused on revenge - she put Liz, and by extension, Agnes, in danger with the grand jury thing.  Liz would have ended up in jail.  Kate didn't include Liz in the immunity deal (whether or not that was within her power, I don't know).

So I think part of the answer as to who Tom is talking to on the phone, is whether or not the suitcase is meant to protect Liz, or just get revenge on, and hurt, Red (and Liz by extension, or collateral damage).  Just a thought.

In any event I think the next couple of episodes may be Red trying to track down the suitcase.  It will be interesting to see how he does that.  More difficult than tracking a person!  

Last edited by lara1 (5/24/2017 12:01 pm)

Tuxie400 wrote:

Thank you Tatiana and Honey West for reopening the thread. Maybe the forces from Katarina's past closed it. Or perhaps it was Reddington - because we were getting too close to the truth. 

 Thank YOU Tuxie!!! I so needed that funny right now! LOL!
 

lara1 wrote:

HoneyWest #339 - interesting thoughts.  Yes, I've also thought that Katerina was a double agent (or Red, or both).  I think that may be what all of the "mirror images" have been throughout the series.  Especially if one does not buy into the imposter theory (the other reason for all of the mirror images).  KR I think would be well placed, having an American upbringing (if she did, but that does seem to be the case) and some kind of Russian heritage.

I like your idea of Red being a test.  Sent in to see what would happen, to expose her.  Maybe Seaduke was her Russian handler, who knows.  I also think the "affair" was not the only reason why everyone was after KR.  it was that she was spying for both sides and what she learned from "the American" was perhaps told to the Russians and vice versa.  Hence Red's comments to Kate about KR being a traitor to two superpowers.

Also - to add to my comment above on Dom, Red also said to Dom that he couldn't risk going to Dom's because he might be followed by Kate or by someone on her payroll, and he couldn't risk Dom being discovered.  No one can know about Dom.  (except Dembe, interestingly).  I think Dom is a key chess piece, somehow.

 
And Aram has been to Dom's house. Dom saw Aram, but I don't know if Aram saw Dom. I do need to rewatch Artax one of these days...
And I'd love to know Dom's surname. Is he Russian or Serbian?

The idea of Katarina being a test might have been that she was sent by US intelligence to see if Red would "talk", is what I was thinking.

I find it curious that Kate didn't know about Dom after she had lived in Katarina's house for almost four years. So that suggests that Katarina wasn't in contact with her father at all or that, if Kate did know about him, that she didn't know his current whereabouts where he was presumably hiding out. I guess it depends on when it was that Dom went off the grid. Was it before Masha was born or after Katarina disappeared? He said they had all stepped away from Masha to protect her, so that suggests that he was maybe part of her life before that happened? 

Did we ever find out who Apple Man was working for in season one? Because he and his crew moved across the street from Tom and Liz pretty much right after Red turned himself in. And he wasn't working for Red - his info led to the Anslo Garrick breach of the Post Office. Plus, he didn't know who Tom worked for, but he knew he was working for someone. So was he placed there by whoever was beginning to be a danger to Liz? - the danger Red says is why he turned himself in? Was Dianne Fowler involved in placing Apple Man there? We know she knew about Red's past, and his other family. But which Red did she know? If there are two of them...

I re-watched Requiem today, on my computer, easier to freeze frame for me.

Kate and KR have the conversation about the "American" right after Kate accidentally comes upon KR and "the American" in the car in the woods.  KR then confronts Kate in the kitchen.  I think part of that entire conversation was KR gauging how much Kate saw (she clearly didn't get a clear look at the face of the man) and what Kate might think (or say) about it.  I therefore think that at least part of what KR said to Kate was to throw her off the track, so to speak.

Also - little Masha in the stroller - she clearly has blond-ish wavy/curly hair, not like the dark brown smooth hair in Liz's Summer Palace memories, or in the photo on the swing, or in that Kirk had (and that we see someone holding in the scene where the police are at the Summer Palace after "Masha" has been abducted.)  Masha in the scene in the stroller looks more like bubble girl to me.  And we keep seeing these fire memories where Liz seems to have lighter wavier hair, and darker hair in others.  

I don't think these images are accidental.  Its giving more fodder to the "two girls" theory but just who the two girls were, and their relationship to each other, I haven't figured out.  But something happened to one of them.  And I'm beginning to think more and more that the "scar" Liz has  is to distinguish her as the "real" one of them.  I thought that at first in Season 1, then no longer thought it.  Now I am thinking about it again!

Last edited by lara1 (5/24/2017 5:59 pm)

LDJones - Yes, it was never directly stated who Apple Man was working for. I assumed it was Fitch and the Cabal.