The Blacklist Refugees » Kaplan; Kaplan, Conclusion

Eastcoast · 5/19/2017 10:59 pm

I have this of Baz, it's not good...

Last edited by Eastcoast (5/19/2017 11:00 pm)

Honey West · 5/19/2017 11:06 pm

deadskie13, is that you? Welcome back! And also welcome to KiminTexas! I've recently returned to the ranks of the full-time employed, so I don't get to be here as much as I used to.

Anyway, I checked Requiem and no, not the same suitcase. That would have been ironic, wouldn't it? But the body suitcase is scuffed, so it's not pristine. Red gave the impression that the suitcase was what had been buried. I wonder if maybe the body was buried in a suitcase, but when she dug it up, it was too far disintegrated to use so she transferred the contents to another old suitcase, maybe from that barn. That seems highly plausible to me. So it was still bones in a suitcase that Red would know about.

Whatever happened to Katarina, it happened right after her phone call to Kate in Requiem. I was looking at her clothes in that scene, and she was not only wearing the same coat, but she was wearing that same turtleneck sweater as in "Cape May." Red had to have been there. In his opium-infused memories of Katarina he remembers her wearing that same outfit at Cape May. The only reason he could know what she'd been actually wearing is if he had been there. So he must know what happened there. To her. I'm not sure Kate could have been there, though. I thought she took the phone call while she was still at the motel in Nebraska. Kate wasn't Red's cleaner yet. So how did Kate come to know all about the body in the suitcase and why was it "their secret"? This becomes very perplexing!

Tatiana · 5/19/2017 11:06 pm

Eastcoast wrote:
I have this of Baz, it's not good...

Unfortunately, Eastcoast, Jon Bokenkamp confirmed that Baz took a fatal hit from the gun Kaplan shot from. He will remain in our memories, but will no longer be part of Red's team.

Tatiana · 5/19/2017 11:12 pm

Honey West wrote:
Colleen wrote:
Welcome JackPow! Good point about other folks posting what you are thinking. It means great minds think alike :-)

Thanks to BBB's predictions for season 5 and JackPow's suggestion for us listing our current theory - maybe we could also include our predictions for season 5? I'd enjoy seeing Red do something mundane like buy groceries using coupons - and be totally natural about it as if he'd done it all the time.

My current theory is Kaplan's confidant was Aram's turtle. Key taped to his shell, he dutifully walked to Tom, who was clean shaven at the time but grew a beard waiting so long for turtle's arrival. Katarina was also still alive in the suitcase waiting to be rescued. Kaplan should have given the key to Hudson. Never trust a turtle to do a dog's job.
Prize for funniest thing I've read all week!

Brilliant! This is most in keeping with the spirit of our group and the intent of our dear friends who created The Blacklist Support Group.

Brava!!!

Eastcoast · 5/19/2017 11:16 pm

HW, I do not recall her being in a hotel in Nebraska. Just that KR told her that Sam was there. I thought they were in the same city where the fire was.

Tatiana · 5/19/2017 11:17 pm

deadskie13 wrote:
Haha! Thanks! I don't want to jinx myself, but I think I finally caught up on real life nonsense. I've been keeping up with The Blacklist--but I've missed this place tremendously. I imagine I'll do a lot of catching up over the summer. ^-^

So glad to 'see' you Deadskie! I cannot wait to hear more from you this summer as we mull over every minute detail from every juicy episode of the Blacklist!!!! I'm sure we'll create many of our own red herrings along the way, too LOL

Tatiana · 5/19/2017 11:18 pm

Eastcoast wrote:
HW, I do not recall her being in a hotel in Nebraska. Just that KR told her that Sam was there. I thought they were in the same city where the fire was.

Yes, Kate's hotel was the same one that Katarina showed up at with Masha right after the fire.

lara1 · 5/19/2017 11:20 pm

I think that Kaplan is definitely dead (though she does seem to have 9 lives, the number of times she has escaped Red). I think a jump from a bridge at that height and hitting the water would be almost like hitting a solid object. But I'm no expert. And someone had to get word to Tom, or a person to contact Tom, confirming her demise. There's. a small chance she survived but from the shot of her in the water, I think it unlikely.

Upset about Baz - he was being very nice and kind to Kaplan. We've seen in the past that she is an excellent shot. Why couldn't she have just shot him in the arm and shoulder as she sped away? Oh well.

Eastcoast · 5/19/2017 11:22 pm

then she was only about 3.5 hours away if he needed a clean up...

Eastcoast · 5/19/2017 11:26 pm

I have also been thinking about the part with Sam and Liz on the beach that they cut out of Cape May. I did not see it, but I sure wish someone would put it on online so I could. I do not have the Dvd of that.
But it is making me wonder if Sam went to Cape May to let her see Liz and something went wrong.
Maybe that is where there were some people there who found her and he had to make a choice.

Eastcoast · 5/19/2017 11:34 pm

I was thinking of the strange look on Red's face when he saw the Dna because I am sure he had his changed so he would have no connection to Liz if someone tried to make one.
I pondered IF that is KR in the suitcase, then why would Red have disposed of her like that? I thought maybe he was trying to make sure no one got her Dna to make a connection to Liz.

deadskie13 · 5/19/2017 11:38 pm

I am so sorry! I started to read through the comments, and then I realized I'm not gonna make it if I don't post anything--and for like the last four weeks I've been meaning to post something. Will catch up with everyone and everything and soon. That being said, I'm going to jump right in before time pulls another fast one on me.

The first thing I took note of, was that Red is not just a criminal--he is first and foremost a businessman, and we got to see him in action, as he's scrambling to find some kind of means to hang onto. Also, financial ruin cannot take away his personality.

Snakes make me antsy, but Betsy looked cute. ^-^

It's kind of ironic that Mr. Kaplan, The Cleaner, has been "cleaning Red out" to paraphrase Brimly.

They dynamics of all the Task Force are super fantastic! Figure we have 4th season Ressler basically squaring off with 1st season Ressler, in Gale. And then there's Aram, the moral compass of the group, spinning out of control when it comes to vocally defending and protecting his friends. We also get to be reminded in a quick little snippets why everyone opts to make the choices they do: Cooper knows when to bend the rules, as there are some things more important than protocol; Samar will always act on what she personally believes is right; Lizzy is learning to accept both the good and bad bits of herself, and how to pull them together to become something more; and Ressler is willing to cross the line in extreme circumstances--albeit ones that break him on the inside.

(I snagged a new job a couple of months ago, and I'm a morny folk against my will. I get off from work every day at 5:00, and so when Red said "Five o'clock this evening. The war ends tonight." I couldn't help but think the whole dealy-o of truer words having never been spoken.)

Red is incapable of seeing how much he means to other people. I think he gets it with Dembe, I mean. But the whole deal with Dom was just so brilliant and perfect and amazing and flawless, that it made me think of a lot of things.

First off, despite what Red says, it's quite clear that Dom does like Red. Like that much--with italics and everything. Because Dom seems quite ticked off that Red isn't "fighting back", and this is before he's aware that Liz is still alive. As far as Dom knows, at this point in time, Red is just running--and it makes him angry. This is the Raymond "Red" Reddington, after all. And it seems like Dom has known Raymond long enough to know the man behind the name, and he believes that neither one of them should give up.

Second of all, Red flat-out says, "You never have liked me." But gosh-oh-gosh, look at Dom! Look at him! He's yelling, "You always come back!" like Red is some kind of plague--but he's also yelling, "You always come back!" like it's something he needs to believe. I can't think the writers enough for bringing Dom back--but my God! There could have been a whole other hour with just the two of them.

That being said, I didn't get the impression that Dom was Red's father--at all. I'm grounded in the belief that Dom is Katarina's father, and that he secretly likes Raymond--and wants to openly like him, but is terrified to do so. It's like a shift in reality, I mean. Like Raymond is the son-in-law Dom always wanted, but never had the opportunity to have--and so if there was just this one little ripple in the times of reality, Katarina and Red would be happily married, and little Masha/Lizzy would have known her G-pa Dom this whole time. It's just things didn't work out that way. No happily ever after and such, for our dearies--just everyone left scrambling to pick up any semblance of a normal life that they can manage.

And so to me, when Red says, "I'm sorry. For all of it. I wish I'd been the person you wanted me to be." I take it as Red being aware of that--that at some point in time, vaguely, there may have been a chance for things to be different, and for Katarina to still be alive, and for Dom to be tremendously happy. Dom told Red the first go around that he had "ruined his life"--and while Red seemed to ignore it at the time, I think he took it to heart, on the inside.

My goodness! The first showdown with Kate, and Red saying he "doesn't want more death"! Jeez-o-peetz! I live for moments like that, truly! Good writing and brilliant execution, I mean! James and Susan were doing nothing but knocking them out of the park, one right after the other. Perfection!

I also am inclined to agree with Red. Sure, there have been sticky situations that LIz has gotten into via Red and Co. But ultimately, when she is in the most danger, it seems to be when she places herself there. That is, as Red has said, "the world she has chosen". And he's right. He can't stop her. All he can do is run all about, pooling his resources, trying to calculate how to catch her from any and all angles, when she does fall.

Interesting that Kate says she's "not going anywhere", and then at the end of the conclusion, Liz basically says the same. They're both unwilling to walk away from Reddington--Kate, because he's her end, and Liz, because he's her beginning.

Gale making a deal with Kaplan, is a lot like hypocritical 1st season Ressler. What I mean is, the Task Force made a deal with Reddington, because he's the devil they know; he's the monster that allows them to bring down even bigger monsters. And Gale is trying to call them out for it. BUT! There he is, doing the same thing, making a deal with Kaplan, because she's the devil he knows--and little does he know that our dear, sweet Kate is another kind of monster altogether.

Honey West · 5/19/2017 11:43 pm

Eastcoast wrote:
HW, I do not recall her being in a hotel in Nebraska. Just that KR told her that Sam was there. I thought they were in the same city where the fire was.

That could be the case, eastcoast. I need to re-watch the whole thing and figure out where Kate was when she was getting those phone calls after the fire and after she dropped Masha off with Sam. I guess she could have been just about anywhere. I don't think they say. Is it the same motel from fire night? That would make sense because Kate might go there to wait for Katarina.

(darned autocorrect!)

Last edited by Honey West (5/19/2017 11:57 pm)

Honey West · 5/19/2017 11:56 pm

deadskie13 #192, well said! I totally agree about Red not getting (or maybe just not accepting) the fact that he matters to people. I think he feels that he does not deserve it.

The 5:00 meeting time made me think "Why would they want to meet anywhere during rush hour?" Maybe on the show it was the weekend?

Two words: More. Dom.

deadskie13 · 5/20/2017 12:15 am

Mr. Kaplan Part 2:

I LOVE that this starts off with Red cutting up his old life, so to speak. Because in a lot of ways, that's exactly what's happening; we're seeing a new Red--one that's willing to admit when he's wrong, tries to set things right, gives second chances, hands over a way out, and blames no one but himself.

It was amazing watching Mr. Kaplan command the room of government officials. Figure they got to think they were in charge for all of five seconds. Sorry, gentlemen! This is Kate, and she has crap to do!

Red takes the blame for Elizabeth being in trouble--he says he entered her life to protect her, and there she was potentially facing jail because of him. Red is taking the blame for Kate. Lizzy was facing the prospects of jail with the rest of the Task Force not because of Red, but due to Kaplan. Granted, you can argue there wouldn't be a case without Red's actions--but there wouldn't be any actions to see, without Kate turning into a jerk-face.

Oh my goodness! Red talking to Prescott is one of the best things, ever! Figure our boy Red has had a ridiculously crazy day, and you can just see some of the insanity creeping in his eyes when he lays it all out.

It was super snazzy that Red let Donald be the one to find Reven, on account that it meant the most to Ressler.

Oh, Hitchen's face when she realizes that she's in the frying pan with them!

I've noticed it before, but I think it's probably more prominent on account that you could kind of sort of feel like it was goodbye in the air--but holy crap, Susan Blommaert is just so brilliant and amazing and beautiful! She really is. I love our dear Kate, and I'm so sad to see her go--but at the same time, I think the writers did a good job of setting her up to take a fall. It had to be done, I mean. She'd grown just a little too reckless and a little too wild--and I kind of sort of think that you can't get shot in the head twice, and not have it affect who you are at leas a little. So it all made sense.

Red impatiently and wearily telling Gale he wasn't going to kill him, but take his phone--like hey-hey! Were you not listening to anything I just said? And then the brilliant Redism of: "Fun times! More to come, Agent Gale! More to come!" A nice little tip of the hat to season 5 being confirmed, I thought.

Kate holds Elizabeth's hand just like we've seen Red do. I think it's a nice way to remind us that even though Kate's hyped up on revenge, she still very much loves Liz, and that's her true motivation.

When Kate says, "We're at the end, now. And I'm lost. Tired. I don't know how to keep you safe." I feel like it's another one of those ripple in time dealy-os. Because if Mr. Kaplan could just take a deep breath and take two steps back, maybe she could see that those words come just as easily out of Raymond's mouth, as her own. But again, we're not in it for a happy ending this time.

I love love love that Kaplan smiles when she talks about loving Raymond and Katarina. It was just so perfect, that she was allowed to have a flickering moment of happiness.

Baz.

On the bridge, no one expects Red to do the right thing. This echos back to when he tells Dom something along the lines of how he (Dom) is "conditioned to assume my selfishness" and how it's his fault Dom harbors such beliefs. And so I wonder if this is lesson number 2 for Red: do not allow others to never know what your true intentions are. One can hope, I mean. One can hope.

Kate's last line was "I loved you, Raymond." I died a little bit, too.

Ressler accidentally kills Hitchins, and calls a cleaner. I'm wondering if Red started out in such a way. I fluctuate between Red being calculating from the start, and his situation being something he happened to fall into.

The last scene with Elizabeth and Red was FANTASTIC. I was figuring if you go the route that Red honestly is her father, and that we're privy to such info when no one else on the show is--well then, the real pay off would be when everyone else finds out. And they started with Liz, and she did not disappoint!

The whole scene was handled brilliantly, from Spader's initial twitch of anger at the results on the paper, to his look of stoic fear--to his deflection of not being broke, and then stumbling through offering her a way out. It was so understated--just so perfect--but you could see the frozen panic and terror on his face, the more she kept talking.

I also really appreciate the delicate parts of the song falling right when Liz says, "because it did come naturally", and then how it falls into silence during her little speech--and then picks right back up again, with the whole, "I'm not gonna walk away from that." You can see Red's whole demeanor change, when he realizes what just happened--that he's been accepted, and not pushed away. And it's perfect, how you can hear the smile in Elizabeth's voice when she says she is like him. Gah! PERFECTION. ^-^

P.S. Tom can be a real jerk.

Colleen · 5/20/2017 2:24 am

Deadskie13 fantastic, poignant analysis! Thank you!

TheYeti · 5/20/2017 5:10 am

Man, this final episode is probably my favourite of the entire show! I had to process it a little before writing anything about it, as I was really stunned by the last 15 minutes.

First of all, I never expected so many characters to leave the show in just these 2 episodes, but it seems very much that we have seen the last of Abe, Baz, Brimley, Laurel, Kaplan and probably Janet. I honestly did not believe the writers would be capable of this, given the fact that less and less important characters are killed every new season. Fortunately we still have Panabaker!

I really loved how the writers unexpectedly finally finished the ongoing arc of Reven's murder, and the Aram/Samar love story and made it fit in the story perfectly. It's also good to see they pay more attention to continuity as more storylines from previous seasons are used, especially by using the 86 bodies Kaplan dug up.

I want to add that I never really believed in the "Red is an imposter" theory but now I'm pretty convinced of it, as I still believe Red never lied to Liz. So we know the old Raymond was Liz's father, and probably the same person as Katarina's lover. We know he was shot by Liz (as confirmed by Red in "Tom Connolly"). Now I'm wondering, did Red confirm Liz killed him or just shot him? I have to rewatch the episode for that.

If Red just confirmed Raymond being shot, I am leaning towards the theory that Red and Kaplan took him away and killed him for whatever reason (and buried him at the farm), maybe to protect Masha from him, who was abducted by Raymond before (just a possibility). That would explain the terrible thing Red and Kaplan did to Katarina, who drowned herself afterwards as she was followed by both the Americans and the KGB. It might even explain why Red chose between "the mother and the child" as he might have saved Masha this way from something Raymond might have done, while it eventually lead to Katarina's death as she had no one to live for or to protect her. I have yet to figure out how this all fits together exactly, but I think this theory might work. (Maybe this has been mentioned in another thread as well. I could have missed it then.)

The remaining questions are, in this case, who Red was before he became Raymond Reddington, and what the Fulcrum has to do with what happened at the night of the fire, but I think it can be put in the story in some way. Does anyone have the date of the period in which Cooper joined the Navy as Red was working overseas? Maybe the Russian mentioned there (Seaduke or something?) has anything to do with what eventually happened at the night of the fire. If Raymond being held hostage by Seaduke, was before the night of the fire, I'm seeing the possibility that Seaduke is the one who worked together with Kaplan to kill Raymond and take over his place. This explains why Seaduke was never captured. I don't believe they just tell that and do nothing with it. The other possibility is that Seaduke became a major Cabal member and had something to do with the Fulcrum, but I'm sure he will be an important part of next season.

Lots of thoughts, and I cannot really find out how all the puzzle pieces fit together. I really need to rewatch some important episodes as I have some doubts of what I heard before, but man!!, this episode offered so much to think about! I wonder how they will ever wrap up all lose ends from the previous four seasons in what is probably the final season!

Last edited by TheYeti (5/20/2017 5:12 am)

IowaWatcher · 5/20/2017 9:34 am

Yeti, there's a time line in one of the sub-forums. Click on the Index link near the top left of your screen to go to it.

Tuxie400 · 5/20/2017 10:55 am

deadskie13 - Welcome back and congrats on catching up with real life! Catching up on real life is something I've given up on. I've never made it past one third of the things on my to do list, and likely never will.

lara1 · 5/20/2017 11:20 am

deadskie13 #195 - welcome back! really enjoyed reading your recap, lots of good points. And funny! I especially like this line:

"It was amazing watching Mr. Kaplan command the room of government officials. Figure they got to think they were in charge for all of five seconds. Sorry, gentlemen! This is Kate, and she has crap to do!"

Last edited by lara1 (5/20/2017 11:20 am)