The Blacklist Refugees » Kaplan; Kaplan, Conclusion

JackPow · 5/19/2017 9:12 pm

Lara, I agree! I think a re-watch is in order. I was perplexed that the skeleton is clearly old...and I felt the suitcase style looked rather old/dated.....and honestly I thought the luggage tag looked kinda old/dirty....yet the name Elizabeth Keen can only be recent. At least since Liz married Tom, so like 5 years or so?

My mom's explanation was that the luggage tag was added recently (as in immediate current time) as an extra contingency plan, in case Tom never made it to the bus station, to ensure that eventually the luggage made it to Liz. Even if the bus station staff had to eventually send it to her when the locker went unclaimed (with Kaplan being deceased)

But I'm still so confused! I'm really looking forward to reading all of your thoughts on this!

Honey West · 5/19/2017 9:13 pm

Colleen wrote:
Welcome JackPow! Good point about other folks posting what you are thinking. It means great minds think alike :-)

Thanks to BBB's predictions for season 5 and JackPow's suggestion for us listing our current theory - maybe we could also include our predictions for season 5? I'd enjoy seeing Red do something mundane like buy groceries using coupons - and be totally natural about it as if he'd done it all the time.

My current theory is Kaplan's confidant was Aram's turtle. Key taped to his shell, he dutifully walked to Tom, who was clean shaven at the time but grew a beard waiting so long for turtle's arrival. Katarina was also still alive in the suitcase waiting to be rescued. Kaplan should have given the key to Hudson. Never trust a turtle to do a dog's job.

Prize for funniest thing I've read all week!

lara1 · 5/19/2017 9:16 pm

JackPow - welcome! I enjoyed reading your posts.

Your comment about redheads being only 2% of the population - well isn't that also what Red said about his blood type? a 2% connection (or should I say 2% solution? ). hmmm

I am open to any and all theories because I still don't think we have the whole story (Red: I'm never telling you everything.). I'm not totally sold on Red being Katerina but I do think its possible. It does answer quite a few questions while at the same time, there are things that refute it. I don't think we'll know the true, deeper connection til series end. But that's just me.

Colleen · 5/19/2017 9:20 pm

Wow - great observations and ideas from everyone!

I completely missed everything in the barn except the bed. Christmas decorations! And Kaplan using a suitcase she grabbed from the barn makes sense.

I tried to watch for symbols/themes, but lasted only the first 5 minutes until the first commercial break. The show was just too good :-) But a lot of symbols were packed into those 5 minutes: clock behind Red, green walls (walls were also green in the jail interrogation room later in the episode), snake (serpent/dragon/evil), TWO live bunnies about to be sacrificed/eaten alive for the greater good of helping Red's mission.

Haven't re-watched yet, but this may end up being among my most watched TBL episodes ;-)

Last edited by Colleen (5/19/2017 9:24 pm)

lara1 · 5/19/2017 9:22 pm

JackPow - yes I think the simplest explanation was that the suitcase would find its way to Liz if Kaplan's connection plans fell through. I just don't know why it (the tag) looks a bit beat up and is wet or water stained.
Maybe it was just attached as a blank tag to the suitcase, and Kaplan wrote in the current address.

I don't know how/if the suitcase would survive maybe 25 years or so in the ground, if its that old. I think maybe there's a parallel to Katarina burying that coffee can under the tree in the summer palace.
Which is what got me thinking that the suitcase was actually in storage in the attic in the barn, with or without the remains in it, and Kate dug up something else, additional - that maybe Katarina had even buried. Maybe not. Red did seem to be looking for the suitcase under the tree. Its possible Kate wrapped it in thick plastic, so it was unscathed. (Apart from the dampness on the address tag)

Just kicking around some random ideas.

Last edited by lara1 (5/19/2017 9:23 pm)

JackPow · 5/19/2017 9:27 pm

Interesting Honey West! When I originally watched the episode, my initial thought was that Tom was on the phone with some "mystery Kaplan associate" but now I see (rewatched on the NBC app) that it could have been someone we know well. Liz, or who knows?

Honey West · 5/19/2017 9:29 pm

Welcome, JackPow. Always nice to hear from another person's point of view! Tatiana and I will likely create a forum just for theories. We thought people would use General for that, but if we have one just for theories that might work better. We also have a spinoff site for what we call "uncomfortable subject matter" theories and discussions, in order to keep this site light and fun. Over there it's sort of the dark side, but we don't get too heavy, it's just an outlet for those discussions. It is thrushes.boardhost.com, if you are interested.

But meanwhile, kick off your shoes, pull up a chair and make yourself at home!

JackPow · 5/19/2017 9:32 pm

Good point Lara! I should have added that my mom mentioned that there is no way the suitcase would have survived underground. The leather might have deteriorated over 30 years. So perhaps Kaplan added the bones to it after digging them up.

Honey West · 5/19/2017 9:34 pm

Maybe the suitcase once belonged to Katarina? Been in the barn all these years. I'm going to go back to Requiem and see what that suitcase that she was packing looked like.

Honey West · 5/19/2017 9:38 pm

JackPow wrote:
Thank you, Tatiana! Also, I'm sorry to take up space in this episode discussion, but I was having trouble adding a personal avatar photo. I'm not computer savvy and wasn't sure how make a personal photo into a URL photo. Anyway, I just wanted to add that I love the welcoming environment that your small group has created here!

JacPow, there is a website called tinypic (I think it's .com) that will host a small image file for your avatar. I found it on this site when I initially made mine, but I can't recall where it showed up? Might have been in your profile area? Anyway, the site gives you instructions for using the image as an avatar.

lara1 · 5/19/2017 9:39 pm

HoneyWest - good idea to look at Requiem for katarina's suitcase.

Also for the white iron frame bed - although that would probably be a summer palace. though we never did see the bed in Kirk's/adult Liz's scenes in Liz's bedroom - but there was a quick glimpse of the bed in requiem.

which of course begs the question - whose bed is it in the barn at Tansi Farms?

I was trying to remember whether we saw a bed at all in the fire memories, but I only remember (no pun intended!) a dresser, a clock, various children's dolls and toys.

Last edited by lara1 (5/19/2017 9:40 pm)

lara1 · 5/19/2017 9:44 pm

I looked at some information surrounding the DC areas around the address on the luggage tag. I am no DC expert, I have not been there in years and years, but the photos I found were more like detached homes, semi detached homes and row houses, all kind of vintage buildings. Not trendy downtown with businesses and shops across the street as we saw with Liz and Tom's apartment. Still that is not conclusive and I'm no expert. But it would have been good to find photos that look more like a "downtown" district.

Then again the address on the tag could be completely random, its just meant to show that its addressed to Liz in DC

Colleen · 5/19/2017 9:44 pm

Honey West wrote:
Colleen wrote:
Welcome JackPow! Good point about other folks posting what you are thinking. It means great minds think alike :-)

Thanks to BBB's predictions for season 5 and JackPow's suggestion for us listing our current theory - maybe we could also include our predictions for season 5? I'd enjoy seeing Red do something mundane like buy groceries using coupons - and be totally natural about it as if he'd done it all the time.

My current theory is Kaplan's confidant was Aram's turtle. Key taped to his shell, he dutifully walked to Tom, who was clean shaven at the time but grew a beard waiting so long for turtle's arrival. Katarina was also still alive in the suitcase waiting to be rescued. Kaplan should have given the key to Hudson. Never trust a turtle to do a dog's job.
Prize for funniest thing I've read all week!

Thanks!! Although you have to share the prize - you suggested Liz would push both Red and Kaplan off the bridge. And added the frustrated emogie face. I crack up every time just thinking about it. Even watching the season finale, as dramatic as it was, I actually grinned when Liz jumped out of the car on the bridge.

Saturday Night Live should make it into a skit.

Honey West · 5/19/2017 10:08 pm

Colleen, I thought Liz would just have finally gotten so frustrated with both of them she would shout "I wash my hands of you both!" as she shoves them over the railing and into the water. LOL! Or she could have walked up to both of them and called for a group hug. And then pushed them over the railing.

I thought I heard Cooper say that he had called for people to be waiting under the bridge. But JB seems to be saying she is definitely dead, so maybe they will just recover her body. Maybe we will have a Kaplan funeral next season to kick things off.

I'm still bummed that Baz seems to be dead.

Last edited by Honey West (5/19/2017 10:08 pm)

deadskie13 · 5/19/2017 10:36 pm

Tuxie400 wrote:
The thing I loved most about the episode was Red saying he was not going to kill Kaplan. And it was wonderful to hear him say he shouldn't have shot her the first time. I think his offer to give Kate the island escape was the ultimate olive branch. Last week's episode and this week's showed so much character growth for Red.

I agree 110%! And I think it's interesting, that there Liz and Kate both were, assuming the worst from Red--that aside from Dembe, they were the people there who knew him the best, and they were very, very wrong. It was such a wonderfully perfect heart-wrenching scene to watch. Brilliant parts by everyone, all around! ^-^

Eastcoast · 5/19/2017 10:41 pm

Hey deadskie, long time no see!!

I agree with your comment!

and Welcome Jackpow and Kimin texasand anyone else I have missed!

deadskie13 · 5/19/2017 10:41 pm

Tuxie400 wrote:
About that Bokenkamp interview on EW: About the only thing he actually confirms is that Baz is dead. And that makes me sad.

That is sad! But we still have Dembe!

Eastcoast · 5/19/2017 10:43 pm

Honey West wrote:
Colleen, I thought Liz would just have finally gotten so frustrated with both of them she would shout "I wash my hands of you both!" as she shoves them over the railing and into the water. LOL! Or she could have walked up to both of them and called for a group hug. And then pushed them over the railing.

I thought I heard Cooper say that he had called for people to be waiting under the bridge. But JB seems to be saying she is definitely dead, so maybe they will just recover her body. Maybe we will have a Kaplan funeral next season to kick things off.

I'm still bummed that Baz seems to be dead.

Lol, I laughed so hard when I read this. I still like the big tee-shirt idea....

I heard Cooper say that too.

deadskie13 · 5/19/2017 10:44 pm

Eastcoast wrote:
Hey deadskie, long time no see!!

I agree with your comment!

and Welcome Jackpow and Kimin texasand anyone else I have missed!

Haha! Thanks! I don't want to jinx myself, but I think I finally caught up on real life nonsense. I've been keeping up with The Blacklist--but I've missed this place tremendously. I imagine I'll do a lot of catching up over the summer. ^-^

deadskie13 · 5/19/2017 10:57 pm

KiminTexas wrote:
Hi! New poster. I've followed ya'll for a long time - from the other site. Easy for me to say now, I know. But I've always thought Red was Red and he was Liz's father. I always took his denial as a metaphor. anyway...

So.. a few weeks ago when Fowler came up again. That conversation Red had with her always stuck with me. It gave me the impression that even Red didn't know what happened that night. So I found a little on it. still looking for formal/full transcript. But:

But Red shoots her anyway. As she sits there, bleeding, she says, “I know the truth, Red. About that night. About what happened to your family. Do you want to know the truth?” and he says, “More than anything in the world. But if you know the truth, Diane, then somebody else does too.” and shoots her dead

Why does Red not know the truth? (Sorry if this isn't the place to ask this one.. just the father reveal got me to thinking about that conversation).

Hi! And welcome! I always took it to mean that Red has/had another family, via Carla/Naomi, or someone we haven't been introduced to yet. And I think something terrible happened to them--or at least to a daughter that wasn't Liz. I don't have anything to back it up, other than the whole story he feeds Madeline Pratt back in season 1. And while it could just be a made up story, I've always held the impression that it holds at least a little bit of truth.