Big Badd Bazzer wrote:

I also thought Megan Boone did some of her finest work in the closing scene w/ Spader - - - basically tightening up her ship and willing to enter the creepy, cool and dangerous world of career criminals - as if being an FBI profiler has no risks??? lol
Megan finding out Red is her father (regardless of future storyline diversion) brought us a unique and unexpected ending to S.4 - WE ARE FAMILY . . . .  have to watch it again as I was late to the party last nite - - - but Megan Boone doesn't just play an FBI profiler - she's starting to assimilate the aspect and nuance of great television acting. Nice to see the metamorphisis of the former newbie actress.

Wonder who's most responsible for Megan's growth since taking the role of Liz Keen?

Agreed BBB - I think they're giving Megan some really good lines and story. I can't tell you how much I love Liz and Samar doing fieldwork together. They're an awesome team without being some kind of stereotypical 'chick team'. They're believable.

In these last episodes especially, there's more depth to her character as relates to her past in Mr. Kaplan and her future with Raymond. She seemed to have easily and willingly accepted Raymond as her father. Remember she said that when she had the first DNA test done two weeks after meeting Reddington she was afraid to find out the devil was her father. That's a big change to today where she says, there's anger and even a bit of hate, but that's part of being a family.
 

lara1 wrote:

For no apparent reason, the following thought popped into my head out of the blue.

The comment that Kirk made to Red way back in 4.01 - "unlike you, I would never hurt my own daughter", something like that.  At that point, I think Kirk truly believed that Liz was his, and not Red's, daughter.  And Red supposedly had a family, which I believe was other than KR/Liz (regardless of whether you believe the latest revelation).  

They have not picked up on that thread yet.  I wonder if it will go anywhere in Season 5.

Lara - I keep going back to that and I've been watching each episode to see if I can pick up on a clue about Red's daughter, but nothing so far.

Crazy idea: What if the bones in that suitcase are Liz's twin, Elizabeth? and the woman we know as Elizabeth Keen is Masha Rostova, just took over Elizabeth's identity. 
 

I watched both episodes again and here's some of my thoughts:  Ep 4.21 & 4.22 Kaplan/Kaplan Conclusion 

Julian Gale has been tracking Donald Ressler since at least Ep 1.16, Mako Tanida; he saw Donald with Keen and Reddington; we can safely assume he’s been tracking Donald (on his own) since their partnership was severed

When did Ressler get taken off duty on Reddington?

Trivia: James Spader has a scar under his jaw on his neck (10 mins into episode, he gulps wine) so it doesn’t appear the scar is a  Blacklist scar

Harold Cooper and Reddington; worked together.

*Cooper was the youngest agent ever appointed to the Pentagon’s combined investigation and intelligence task force.
At the time, Reddington was stationed overseas working counterintelligence shadowing a Russian operative code-named Seaduke.

Who is Seaduke? Was Katarina Seaduke? Who was Seaduke to Katarina?

* Seaduke made Reddington and dispatched a team of Spetsnaz to abduct him. For 10 days, they tortured him, until he was rescued by an FBI-SEAL Joint Task Force.

* Cooper was working lead on the agency side. His job was to secure the physical evidence in the event that Seaduke was captured and prosecuted.

Seaduke was never captured and prosecuted.

* Masha, I can show you the truth. We can go together.

* Mr. Kaplan: Critical oversight on my part. I was so focused on you, I didn’t see that getting you away from her is unnecessary. Our secret at Tansi farms. I dug it up and I'm going to give it to her.   
My confidant will be alerted and Elizabeth will get the truth.

Masha/Elizabeth's truth is a suitcase full of bones. What will the bones tell us? Will Gale help find that out?

* Hitchens and Ressler:
I want to make sure you understand your place in this marriage. You do what I want, when I want it.
Yeah, that’s not gonna happen.
That’s exactly what’s gonna happen. Hey, you don’t pee standing up in my house, Donald.

Hitchens is the devil herself!

* What was so awful that you withheld the answer to the question I’ve had my whole life?  Anger and fear and a certain amount of hatred are all normal in a family. And that’s what we are. And I’m not gonna walk away from that. 
* Dembe: You didn’t deny it?
Red: I didn’t.
Dembe: And she thinks that’s Kate secret?
Yes.
So she doesn’t know about the suitcase?
Not yet.
Dembe: I’m not sure Elizabeth will ever be ready to hear about what you did to Katarina.  

What did Red do to Katarina????

Elizabeth believes Reddington is her biological father, but what Dembe says can be read two different ways, you didn't deny it? because Red's been keeping it a secret all this time, or you didn't deny it? because Reddington isn't actually Elizabeth's father?

Locker is #41 Suitcase ID tag says Elizabeth Keen, Allison St. Washington DC, etc. 

Mr. Kaplan added that tag recently. Clearly the suitcase must have been in some kind of vault so as not to decay. 

* I got it . Mr. Kaplan’s instructions were very specific. I’m on my way.

Who is Tom talking with? 
Bones of a child? Bones of an adult? Vertebrae look like adult. Bones are severed smoothly, knife/axe/??

IowaWatcher wrote:

Thanks for the summary, Tatiana! A lot went on.

Also, Gale knew Reddington in Saigon. They go back, too.

Good point IowaWatcher!

Colleen wrote:

Is it possible Tom was on the phone with Liz? Kaplan's confidant could have merely delivered the key to Tom with the suitcase's location. If Tom is trying to be a family man, Liz should be the first person he calls. If not, then we are back to Tom Bond.

That's what I thought when I first watched that scene. I think it was another JB red herring, trying to make us think that Tom has returned to his chosen profession and working mercenary for some entity.

But maybe not.

if, as opined above Liz & Tom now hold secrets - perhaps they turn the tables on Reddington and hold state/family secrets - and begin to "Protect Reddington" vs. hunt for bones (aka secrets).
The other aspect is - as expected that Red & Liz will have to work together more than ever before in S5 - and Reddington did not look all that pleased when Liz came to terms with being part and parcel of a masterful criminal family (aka organization).
Perhaps next season will feature Red trying to re-humanize Masha/Lizzy into the very fabric of contemporary society - trying like the dickens to get her to shed her "criminal family skin" while Liz keeps adding criminal elements to her repertoire - so that by mid-season Red fears she may be the next 'concierge of crime'.
Anyways, perhaps not the way the show-runners envision it - but what I'd do if I were show-runner!

Hi JackPow!!!
So glad you finally dropped the incognito and revealed yourself to us 

Let me talk with the other moderator and maybe we'll add an Intro thread. We sure have a lot of time this summer before Blacklist returns, so that might be a cool thing to do. We will certainly have a summer discussion board. The nice thing about Refugees (as with the Support Group) is that we're a relatively small group. 

I'm so happy you want to be an active participant. I've found that even when we agree on a particular point of view, I always hear a different angle and that's very helpful.

Welcome aboard!!!

Thank you, Tatiana! Also, I'm sorry to take up space in this episode discussion, but I was having trouble adding a personal avatar photo. I'm not computer savvy and wasn't sure how make a personal photo into a URL photo. Anyway, I just wanted to add that I love the welcoming environment that your small group has created here!

As for my initial comments on this latest episode, I'm still kinda...(85%?)....leaning towards some sort of imposter theory...and yes, I do kinda mean "Redorina"  So far, I still feel that this episode hasn't exactly dissuaded me from that theory. I wish I could pinpoint the episode/moment back in the past where I initially wondered "hey! Could 'Red' BE katarina?!?" but I've wondered it for while.

We now have proof, in mind at least, that the bloody shirt that Copper found was Raymond Reddington's and that Raymond Reddington was absolutely Liz/Masha's biological father....but not quite sure if "Red" as WE know him today is the original Raymond Reddington.

My initial theory as the whole story of the show (ie, from episode one) is that Red is Liz's father and he (and possibly Katarina too?) is just trying to finally reunite with his daughter so that they may live a peaceful life, in a safe world, away from all of this craziness. So he and Liz will take down all of the big bads, (and possibly reunite with mom, katerina), and will finally live happily ever after, someplace in perfect peace. Maybe on that island? (With agnes....and Hudson..haha)

OK, first wild theory - I just re-watched.

What if that suitcase actually belonged to "an" Elizabeth Keen?  I froze the screen on the luggage tag - it does not look entirely new - there are water stains along the bottom (the way its in the screenshot) and the upper left hand corner.  and the writing looks old and a little blurred/beat up.  Not much, but a little beat up.
The name and address look to be written in ink, that is, not ballpoint or marker, like fountain/cartridge pen ink.  

I had a suitcase very similar to that when I was a child.  What if this belonged to a child, and an adult had written that person's name and address on the tag?  Or belonged to the child when the child was a bit older and the child wrote the tag?

When Kate is called by Gale to tell her that the grand jury was disbanded, Kate was standing in what looked like the inside of the barn that she passed on the outside at Tansi Farms.  This was after she put the suitcase in the locker.  There was a child's iron frame bed (white, old) and lots of storage boxes and crates.  Then when she is on the phone with Gale in the barn, there are lots of Christmas decorations behind her.
Also there is a box with what looks like (child's?) clothing.  Something in that looks Red.  There also looks like what could be a white stuffed rabbit in the background.  Would be great to get a screenshot of that.

So - three ideas:

- was the suitcase in the barn, and Kate just used it to put the remains in?  
- Or were the remains and the suitcase buried together already; or
-was the suitcase with the remains already in the barn, and Kate dug up something else from under that tree and added it to the suitcase?

We assume the tag is a destination marker but what if its not.  The suitcase of an Elizabeth who lived at that address in Washington DC?  

Although, Liz's name wasn't Keen until she married Tom, which is a fake name anyway.  Second wild idea - what if that "alias" of Tom's was deliberately made to be Keen?  Far-fetched I know, but Red did hire him.  But then again, maybe the tag was attached, blank, to the suitcase and that's why it appears to be stained.

I need to look up that address to see if it could be Liz's current address. She and Tom seem to be in a. trendy kind of downtown location currently.

Well it was fun to think this up even if its only my over-active imagination!  thanks for reading!

Last edited by lara1 (5/19/2017 8:55 pm)

Colleen wrote:

Is it possible Tom was on the phone with Liz? Kaplan's confidant could have merely delivered the key to Tom with the suitcase's location. If Tom is trying to be a family man, Liz should be the first person he calls. If not, then we are back to Tom Bond.

That's an interesting thought, Colleen. She could very easily have told Tom to deliver the suitcase to Liz. But once he saw it was full of bones, would he still do it? Or try to investigate it first? Not so sure that if it's something Liz might not ever be ready to deal with that Tom would just bring it to her.  What would Kate have told him to make him think it was a good idea to give her the suitcase? Hmmm, something to chew on for the next few months, I guess.