The Blacklist Refugees » Kaplan; Kaplan, Conclusion

LDJones · 5/18/2017 10:14 pm

Assuming the skeleton in the suitcase is Katarina, that spoils the theory that Red is Katarina. So we still have Kirk's question to Red, "are you Elizabeth's father?" and his reply, "Elizabeth is my daughter." I thought the Red-as-Katarina theory might handle that, but now we need something else.

lara1 · 5/18/2017 10:15 pm

Tatiana - well I never fully trusted Tom. heh heh heh. So he worked for Kaplan, but it may be under the instruction of someone else.

Tatiana · 5/18/2017 10:16 pm

My take?

I don't think it's an imposter after all.
I think:

Dom is Red's Father
Dom is Katarina's Father
Liz is not Red's daughter
Liz knows Kate went off to find something and she had Tom track where Kate put it

Seriously, I don't even remember what that episode was about, there was so much!!!

Tatiana · 5/18/2017 10:16 pm

Samar and Aram making out! Oh be still my heart!!!! Mad passionate love!!!

lara1 · 5/18/2017 10:18 pm

LDJones wrote:
Assuming the skeleton in the suitcase is Katarina, that spoils the theory that Red is Katarina. So we still have Kirk's question to Red, "are you Elizabeth's father?" and his reply, "Elizabeth is my daughter." I thought the Red-as-Katarina theory might handle that, but now we need something else.

LD Jones, I couldn't hear what Red said to Dembe when they went to find the suitcase, but it sounded like a man's name. however I really could not hear it, I just got that impression. will have to wait for the transcript.....but it could be Katarina.

LDJones · 5/18/2017 10:18 pm

At some point Liz will remember that she had the memory of killing her father. More questions!

IowaWatcher · 5/18/2017 10:20 pm

Dom is Red's father? I'm pretty tired. I thought that he was Red's spy handler and knows Red is an imposter, but y'all are probably right.

Yes, excellent ending and a good way to bring Tom back into the fold.

I wish that I could rewatch several parts of it right now. Ah, well. This weekend . . .

lara1 · 5/18/2017 10:21 pm

Tatiana - so then, why does the DNA of "old" Reddington say that Red is her father?

Interesting thought on Tom! or is someone from Redemption involved and is that how they bring back the resolution of that story?

They left it open so it could go any way, but I like your idea!

LDJones · 5/18/2017 10:21 pm

lara1 wrote:
LDJones wrote:
Assuming the skeleton in the suitcase is Katarina, that spoils the theory that Red is Katarina. So we still have Kirk's question to Red, "are you Elizabeth's father?" and his reply, "Elizabeth is my daughter." I thought the Red-as-Katarina theory might handle that, but now we need something else.
LD Jones, I couldn't hear what Red said to Dembe when they went to find the suitcase, but it sounded like a man's name. however I really could not hear it, I just got that impression. will have to wait for the transcript.....but it could be Katarina.

I'm pretty sure the phrase was "what we did to Katarina." Also, Dembe knows so much. Was he with Red that long ago? I thought his rescue as a teenager was more recent.

Tuxie400 · 5/18/2017 10:22 pm

lara1 wrote:
So = the reveals I think we got from this:

Dom is Red's father (anyone else agree)
Red is not Reddington
Red is not Liz's father.

Boy, those were not the conclusions I came to at all. I assume your evidence for Dom is Red's father is Red's statement to the effect I'm sorry I'm not the man you wanted me to be. I don't think we can take that as a confirmation. (Although I have thought in the past that Dom was both Katarina and Red's father.)

What's your evidence that Red is not Reddington and not Liz's father? I ended the finale believing Red is Raymond Reddington because Cooper knew him during their Naval intelligence days. I thought the DNA test proved Reddington was Liz's father.

lara1 · 5/18/2017 10:23 pm

LDJones wrote:
At some point Liz will remember that she had the memory of killing her father. More questions!

Yes! good point.

Well if Red doesn't lie to Liz still stands, he is not her father (I think that's confirmed now), and her father died in the fire (whether she shot him or not).

My head is spinning! no doubt once I think about it some more, more ideas will come! LOL

LDJones · 5/18/2017 10:26 pm

Different tack here: now that Hitchins is gone, a) what happens to Ressler? He's now gone to the dark side. And in the past few years we've had two FBI directors (?), a national security advisor, an attorney general, "the director," and whatever Alan Alda was disappear/get killed. I would think Panabaker might need a bigger security contingent! b) I don't think we've seen the last of Gale, especially now that Hitchins is gone.

Tatiana · 5/18/2017 10:27 pm

I just started reading this lengthy interview of Jon Bokenkamp by Natalie Abrams, chock full of stuff:

http://ew.com/tv/2017/05/18/blacklist-red-liz-father-finale-spoilers/

Tuxie400 · 5/18/2017 10:28 pm

As for the bones in the suitcase, I did not think they looked like an adult skeleton. But maybe I'm wrong.

Dembe said Liz thinks Raymond being her father was the secret. But the secret involves the skeletal remains in the suitcase. And both Dembe and Red think she can't handle knowing whatever that is.

Patter · 5/18/2017 10:31 pm

Tatiana wrote:
My take?

I don't think it's an imposter after all.
I think:

Dom is Red's Father
Dom is Katarina's Father
Liz is not Red's daughter
Liz knows Kate went off to find something and she had Tom track where Kate put it

Seriously, I don't even remember what that episode was about, there was so much!!!

Sooooo much to unpack here!!!! Last 10 minutes were intense and I don't think I caught what the heck just happened.

Is Dom Red's dad? There was one line that made me think He is only katarinas father and the other line made me think he is Red's. I'll have to watch again for those cuz I'm processing waaaay to much right now. Is he both? Ahhh!

Still don't understand if the Red we see is Raymond Reddington. Liz said she took the scotch glass and sent t off for results and threw them in the trash because she didn't want to know. That sample was from the Red we know. Now the Sample Cooper took was from 30 years ago and could be real Raymond. If the imposter theory is true. But I don't know what to believe there!!!!

Poor Baz!!!!! Hopefully ambulance got there in time!

Need to watch the scene between Red and Dembe again at the farm. Couldn't hear much with the loud music.

And welcome back Tom Keen...I think??

Goodnight! Will check in tomorrow!

lara1 · 5/18/2017 10:31 pm

Tuxie400 # 90 - heres my thought on the DNA. They made a point of saying that Liz took a DNA sample from "new" Red but never looked at it. then cooper gets a sample that is something like 30 years old, and that "matches" Liz to "old" Reddington. Dembe asks Red if he denied it. Something in Reds answer made me think that he did not deny it but its not the truth. And that the suitcase has the truth. But I need to get the transcript of that entire conversation.

On Dom, I've always thought since the "kitchen sink" dialog between them when Red said that Dom still has family and the look on Red's face with every rejection from Dom, plus that he went there in the first place seeking "a way forward" that Dom was some sort of parental figure. But I agree, there was nothing conclusive in that scene.

IowaWatcher · 5/18/2017 10:36 pm

Tuxie400 wrote:
What's your evidence that Red is not Reddington and not Liz's father? I ended the finale believing Red is Raymond Reddington because Cooper knew him during their Naval intelligence days. I thought the DNA test proved Reddington was Liz's father.

I forgot what thread it's on, but there's a link to a blog with a really good theory that there was Raymond Reddington, who was killed on fire night, and Red who assumed Raymond Reddington's identity. I'll look for it in the morning. The blogger does a really good job spelling it out with lots of evidence from the show. Maybe someone else who read it can provide the link?

Thus, Reddington is Misha's father, but the imposter "Red" is not, so he is not lying to Liz. But it is in her best interests to let her believe that he is the original Reddington. Now there's a new wrinkle: what did he have to do to KR? I'm really confused. And who sent that painting if KR is dead? Maybe she isn't. Mr. Kaplan doesn't know everything.

Let me get more sleep and do a rewatch.

lara1 · 5/18/2017 10:39 pm

Iowa Watcher - I had a wild thought after watching this that maybe Red killed KR at Cape May. Maybe he was ordered to do it; or she did something that gave him "no choice" when he found out about it. Then it was made to look like a suicide. That would be a wild twist on the "fake suicide" . I guess that means another re-watch of "Cape May".

Tuxie400 · 5/18/2017 10:40 pm

Iowa Watcher - I understand the imposter theory, I just don't understand what in this episode would confirm it.

Tatiana · 5/18/2017 10:40 pm

Tuxie400 wrote:
As for the bones in the suitcase, I did not think they looked like an adult skeleton. But maybe I'm wrong.

Dembe said Liz thinks Raymond being her father was the secret. But the secret involves the skeletal remains in the suitcase. And both Dembe and Red think she can't handle knowing whatever that is.

When I read your statement about the bones not looking like an adult it made me think that maybe Liz had a twin sister.... now that would be creepy.