lara1 wrote:

Honey West wrote:

I see people saying that once the Red/Liz connection is revealed it's the end of the show. I don't think so. We may learn the what, but I think the greater mystery is the why.

It's good that we will find out one way or the other next week.  I think they may have boxed themselves into a bit of a corner with the Kirk storyline.  That is, the storyline put such an emphasis on the father thing that its now like the elephant in the room and IMO will be dragged out too long if they don't address it.  And I suppose it will settle the "Rederina" theory also. My only question is will the DNA test prove it, or will Kaplan tell her, or if Kaplan doesn't tell her that, what will Kaplan tell her?


 

 
i had a thought. Suppose whatever Kate tells Liz, assuming she tells her anything, is contradicted by whatever Cooper discovers?

But I am thinking that Kate may just tell Liz what Katarina had said which is that she never found out who Liz's father really was, but that Raymond believed that she was his. Although one would expect that Kate, of all people, would have confirmed that one way or another on her own after all these years.

I will be very sad when/if they kill off Kate. She is a terrific adversary for Red. I think the best one yet and they obviously have a blast writing for her. Susan B has the perfect delivery for Kate's lines and her reactions when she discovers something are spot on. Like when she realized it was Raymond in the cabin with Liz.

But even though I think we will get a big reveal, as usual it will only open up other storylines with more rabbit holes. So what if Liz learns that Red is her father (if he is). Whatever she finds out, what does she do with the information? She's become smarter, more Red-like, in her approach to things. She's long past that stage of throwing verbal spears at him and then walking off in a huff saying she wants nothing more to do with him. Will she confront him with it? Or play it cool because she still won't know why he wouldn't tell her anything himself. If he has lied to her about that one big thing, she may wonder what else he's lied to her about, even though it's maybe nothing else but that one big lie. He told her in the beginning that there were certain truths that he wasn't going to tell her and that she would have to discover them for herself. He also said the famous "Everything about me is a lie." So if he tells a lie, is it still a lie because he is a lie? I still think that will remain the show's core mystery until the end - who is Raymond Reddington? A recent interview with Jon Bokenkamp he made that very remark, that with all of the so-called reveals about Red, and peeks into his life, we still don't really know anything about him.

This is the first time I really don't want to piece together all the pieces of the spoiler puzzle. Clearly, a great deal will take place. Most likely Mr. Kaplan will either be killed, commit suicide, put into custody, or disappear somehow. She certainly will not have her freedom.

Random thoughts:

What if all of this has been shown from several different viewpoints? I mean, we were struck by Kaplan's wandering scar. Are the producers careless? or is this to show that we are looking through the eyes of different characters?

In a Spader interview, James focus Reddington's return to the FBI has more to do with surrendering himself to Harold Cooper than meeting up with Elizabeth. I found that interesting. Also Spader in a separate interview says (regrding conjecture about the relationnsiop between Red and Liz) it's far better to marvel at the magic than to understand how the magic is created.









 

I still think the core mystery is who is Raymond Reddington. Everything else is just what surrounds that central question. Sort of like Katarina, we know what he's done, but we don't know who he is.

I do that, too, Tatiana. I don't really want to know "everything" or try to know "everything". Just look at the pieces and see some possible ways they go together and then sit back and watch to see which of those works best, if any of them. It's really hard to stay off the episode discussion thread until I see the show on Thursday nights. I probably still show as being online, but I am sometimes looking in the other threads for some info. I steer clear of the episode and avoid you all. The other thing is to avoid Twitter and even google, because I might see something accidentally. I tell ya, it's not easy being on the west coast!

But it is kind of fun to throw out a wild conjecture once in awhile, that I know can't possibly be true, just for the heck of it! I used to listen to a LOST podcast where one of the guys had a crazy theory of the week like that.

Last edited by Honey West (5/13/2017 8:26 pm)

Honey West wrote:

It's really hard to stay off the episode discussion thread until I see the show on Thursday nights.

I can relate! I'm an hour behind EDT.
 

Interesting Tatiana.  I wonder what the meaning of a "very special embrace" is.  There are a few possibilities:

Samar/Aram
Ressler/Liz (whatever happened to the "hanky panky" that Megan teased about?)
Red/Liz
Kaplan/Liz or vice versa
Wild Card!  (but I doubt this because "very special" connotes some kind of prior relationship (of any nature))

I wish it could be Liz and Red.  (I"m not a Lizzington so not in a romantic way.). Its just that they haven't had those close Season 1/2 or even Season3A moments in quite a while.  But I don't think it would be such a surprise for either of them, if that is it.  Depends on the context/dialog I suppose.  If Red reveals that he is Liz's father, that might be a surprise!  Not saying he will, just thinking about a context that would elicit such a response.

we shall see!   

Last edited by lara1 (5/16/2017 6:35 pm)

Tatiana - good thoughts!  Well in those scenarios, the recipient certainly would be surprised. 

Last edited by lara1 (5/16/2017 8:18 pm)

I was thinking, unless the promo is chopped in a weird way, Red says to Kaplan in that bridge scene,

"What have you done?"

The last time I recall that Red said that to someone, he shot the person (Vargas when he betrayed Red (and Liz) to Solomon).

(well I'm not sure I can take him shooting Kate twice.  though she did ask him/say that to him in the last episode (What are you going to do?  shoot me?  - again?).  foreshadowing?  or just a great line (which it was)

This could go in so many different directions!  

Last edited by lara1 (5/16/2017 8:28 pm)

Tatiana - I agree.  although he did say that Kate had to agree as well.  And he told Liz he could not promise not to kill Kate.  

What I am thinking is that he sets up Kate in some way or there is a wild twist.  Just what is in that box buried in Dom's shed?  Something that Katarina owned?  Why is he bringing it to Kaplan?

it gets me thinking again that Kate is really Katarina.  That would be another explanation for the contradictions in dialog - and we think she is "Kate" remembering Kate in Requiem but what if she is KR remembering herself and Kate?  I never used to think Kate was Kr, if only because I think Red's interactions with her would be different, particularly around Agnes' birth.   But that's assuming that "our" Red and KR had a fling.  In Cape May I had the opposite impression.  And that focus in Cape May on KR "cleaning up" the mess in the bathroom, with the bucket and mop,  after the intruder is killed still sticks with me.  Then again maybe Red was just confusing it all in his head.

I'm not sure how likely the KR/Kate scenario is.  There would have to be some wild plot twists to make it possible.  (Like, somewhere along the way, KR took on Kaplan's identity after Kate left Masha's life.) But I think its still out there as a possibility.

But I digress.  Not sure just how many swapped identities there could be, even for TBL!  LOL. 

Last edited by lara1 (5/16/2017 8:39 pm)

You know, the photo on the bridge - the two characters are kind of posed in the very same way facing each other as they were in the standoff in the pristine acre in Mato.  Not saying it will end the same, maybe we will have a  mirror image sort of thing where its the same scene, that plays out differently.  

But if Red does do something in the sight of both the FBI and the police, it may be his end as well.  He may have to go underground.  And we still don't know how the whole Gayle thing is going to play out.