Yes, the motive for the memory wipe 2 years ago is a mystery.  Who could lose the most from Liz having that memory and who was the person protecting?  

Tuxie400, that's an interesting theory.  The time of the surgery, aha.  But maybe they would have had to wipe Nik's memory too as there would be no guarantee he would not bring it up again, maybe.

I do keep thinking its somehow revolving around something that happened around the time of Leonard Caul.  Liz throws the fulcrum at Red, Red is shot, Liz is in his apartment of secrets, Liz finds the photo of her mother and goes on a quest.  Threatens Red with finding out the truth.

I am trying to think if there would have been a change in Liz's behavior toward something or someone as a result of that.  But she changes so often, LOL.  

I also wonder back at my original idea - that someone went in and kind of re-installed the memory of her shooting her father.  Connolly's murder was the trigger for her remembering it, but suppose someone set it up that she would.  I always thought that a bit strange.   But what would be the motive for doing so?  Unless they thought it would on some kind of subconscious level, produce the trigger that prompted her to kill Connolly.  Anything is possible, I guess.  LOL they sure know how to keep us all thinking!

I wonder if we will find out this season, if the actor who plays the doctor returns, and when.  Hmmmm

 

So I have been mulling over the "princess" reference by Krilov, some of us commented above, too.    A couple of things:

-where did he get that from?  Braxton knew it, the Director knew it.  Both eliminated by Red
-Kirk knew it, and may have been the first to call her that

-the Nicholas connection (Red's inside guy in Vienna)- Colleen mentioned the Christmas connection (thank you!) but what if it is a royalty (Czar Nicholas) reference too.  What if all the St Nick/Red and Christmas references are pointing that way?  just a thought.  But a princess and Nicolas connection in the same episode is interesting.  

Anyway, back to the memory doctor.  how did he get that princess nickname?  wild card - was he working for Kirk - or Tom as someone working for Kirk (that theory has been around and its occurred to me from time to time also)

Last related thought for now - Kate did not know that Red had insiders in Vienna.  I think that speaks to the fact that she doesn't know everything.  And Red may yet have a big "truth" in store for her.

This could go in so many different directions, I am so wanting to know where this is all leading!

Last edited by lara1 (5/05/2017 3:01 pm)

Tatiana wrote:

Theory on who wiped Liz's memories 2 years ago:

Cooper

He knows Liz was 'triggered' by the Conolly and doesn't want it to happen again. Maybe he found out how dangerous Liz's memories were and found it best to wipe them. 
Or maybe not.
Btw, not my idea, but 'LoveRed' on Twitter

 
Cooper was my second choice after Kate. Especially because of what he said after she shot Connolly "Run!" Which is what she did after the fire night shooting.
But I think he might have gotten promoted because I was reminded of the dialogue between he and Red about having a sick child. Maybe that murderous tendency is Liz's "sickness" and she is the child referred to? I haven't read that other person's post yet, what was their reason?

lara1 wrote:

Someone somewhere pointed out that two years ago not only was Liz roaming through Red's secret flat, she found the photo of her mother and there were a couple of episodes where she was determined to find out more about her mother because Red would not tell her what happened.  then, Tom was helping her.  So did she find something out about Red and her mother, that someone wanted surpressed?(and not necessarily the "connection" in Kaplan's memories)

Which brings up Tom and even the Katarina is alive ideas again.

So a mutual acquaintance - if that word is to be taken literally, could expand the universe greatly, but I think the chief suspects to be Cooper, Ressler, Tom, and /or someone working on behalf of Katerina, whom Liz knows.

I kind of think Samar and Aram not connected at all.  Ditto Dembe. Red says it wasn't him.  I don't think its Kaplan because Krilov didn't know her.  Have I left out anyone?

 
And after Leonard Caul was when Liz first ran into Anton Velov. He seemed ready to talk and then clammed up after Red got to him. Maybe he knows Krilov, too? I wonder if whatever happened with Liz happened in those last four episodes. This calls for a rewatch!

Also Werner was in Lucerne, not Vienna. Switzerland not Austria. I have been to Lucerne. Beautiful city on Lake Lucerne. So another lake.

Last edited by Honey West (5/05/2017 8:55 pm)

No real place to post this, so I'll add here. I re-watched Cape May this afternoon.  I didn't come away with any thoughts or theories other than what I already had, but I picked up a few small things that may or may not tie back in to the Kaplan arc, and was she actually at Cape May with Katarina - did she go to her?  

1.  When Red is driven to Cape May, I had shades of the possible Red-as chauffeur in Requiem - the scenery that passes outside the car while there is a close up of Red's face is like that when Kaplan was being driven to the summer palace - bright, white light and tree limbs silhouetted against it.  Then again, it may just be stock production footage used

2.  On the beach, Katerina takes off and leaves on the sand the maroon coat that we think Kate is wearing by the ice rink, or something very much like it

3.  The car in the garage of -the Cape May hotel is the dark green color I noted of the car that Red drives to Becky's house in Apothecary, and the color of the car that Philomena rents to drive Marvin to Kaplan (under the Color Green Discussion page).  I don't recall what make of car that was, but the Range Rover shown in the before and after in Cape May - both are dark green

Or, its possible these are clues that Katarina is actually pulling the strings here in the war against Red?

Don't know of course, just throwing out ideas to think about.  

Last edited by lara1 (5/05/2017 5:22 pm)

Big Badd Bazzer wrote:

Third - does anyone have any film of "My Dinner With Dembe" ?  Hopefully won't be as wordy as the old New York film, My Dinner with Andre.

I hadn't thought of that film in years! Somehow, I think "My Dinner with Dembe" would be a lot more entertaining.

Colleen - Thanks for the info on Bill Miner. Interesting!

Lara - did you notice the baby grand piano in Laurel Hitchens' living room?

So we are left wondering, who altered Liz's memory two years ago?

Eaglechica has a very interesting theory and I will post the link here, we can create a separate discussion if anyone wants to explore this further. She really gave a lot of thought to it.

https://eaglechica19.tumblr.com/post/160367491455/is-leonard-caul-the-memory-snatcher-and-other

Tatiana #158. Thanks! I read eaglechica's theory and while its interesting, and clearly well thought out, I don't know what Caul would have to gain by doing so.  I'm not even sure he knew about the fire etc.,

And I don't think Liz necessarily found out the connection between her and Red or even about the fire; she could have discovered something about Red himself.  We don't know.  So I don't think we can eliminate Tom and Cooper (who may in fact know more than we think about Liz and Red)Makes it harder to try to figure out!

Anyway getting back to the person who may have tampered with Liz's memory two years ago,  I think it has to be someone who meets two criteria:  the person had to know what Liz found out (presumably because she told someone)  and the person had to have a motive (IMO):  either intense loyalty to Red (but why then not let Red know what Liz had found out); or the person stood to lose something as well, or would be adversely affected by Liz knowing; or, to keep Liz from being hurt (by what she found out). 

  Tom would certainly fit some of it.  He could have arranged it on behalf of someone else. But my gut tells me that it is not him.

I think Ressler is an outside choice, but it would be kind of wild if that was the ultimate hint in the episode - the "mutual acquaintance" who had his own memories tapped by Krilov.  But it would really be a wild card.

I go back to my original idea about the memories about shooting her father.  By perhaps changing what she remembered about that. So the suppressed memory itself was changed. I do think as eaglechica does, that the scene with Liz and Red in Connolly, before they go no the run - Red thinks she has found out more than she actually has.   Did Cooper realize this when she shot Connolly?  Was it him?But what would be his motive?

So really I don't know.  Maybe we need to think outside the task force, to someone Liz met on a case, who had a stronger tie to Red than she (or we) realized.

Last edited by lara1 (5/06/2017 11:27 pm)