Eastcoast #148 - wow thats a great list of observations. I like the shadow of Red's face being on the left side again!

-I remain confused about the head wound and plate also. She clearly had a hole in her face when she looked in the water and was bandaged at Hunter's house.   Then the wound she shows the cop seems to be at the back of her head.  At first i thought it was her old wound but i think its the new one on top of her old one?  And no trace of a scar on her face. It could have healed well and been covered. I just dont get the head thing. Oh well

Last edited by lara1 (4/23/2017 11:30 am)

lara1 - I've been thinking more about Kate's head wounds. We originally thought the cheek wound was a glancing blow from Red's bullet. What if the face wound was something she got when she fell, rather than being the bullet wound? Remember how Kate spun around? Maybe the beginning of that turn was Kate's flight or fight response and Red's bullet  hit the side of the head where the metal plate was. 
 

Eastcoast - thanks for screen caps. So Rostov is stated as being Russian and Katerina his Russian wife. What puzzles me-

- as others have mentioned, why does KR call him Alexander. He wasnt known by that  name at the time. So either Kate's memory is faulty, or she is just projecting currnet memory ( was that after she was sleeping, cant recall) or there is another reason we dont know

- i always got the impression that Kirk made his money a bit later on, and as "kirk". So that was a misconception, but the question still remains why did he change his name, when he apparently was well known already as Rostov?  Its not like he disappeared then amassed his wealth under the Kirk name . Unless after he fell out with the gov and left  Russia, he felt the need to change it for some reason (personal reason?). That doesn't add up for me

- so back to eastcoasts's point about KR being a myth that no one could find, that also doesnt make sense. If Rostov was not well known it would have made sense, as would her "ghost spy name" being other than KR. But he was well known

- also further to that point, Masha was apparently only rumor acc to the conversations Red had with Velov in Season2 - also that DOJ and others had come snooping around. Again if Masha was the daughter of a well known billionaire, how could no one know about her?  I once thought that one of the reasons she was taken, and as an infant, was to keep her hidden but im not sure she was ever hidden. And it sounds like she was older - remember Red said to Kirk, she lived on and off at his house for 4 years

- the question of where Masha was, on and off for four years when she was not at Rostov's house I  don't think was addressed. But I'm not sure they could have covered all of that in one episode, and this was more about how Kaplan came to work for Liz and then for Red.

But the whole idea of both KR and Masha being ghosts or rumors I now don't understand. Then again, the Director seemed to know of both of them

Anyone have any ideas?  Maybe i have missed something along the way....

Last edited by lara1 (4/23/2017 11:28 am)

lara1 - We were all watching the same show. LOL We just have different perspectives, and the show does seem to have some discrepancies.

I wonder if the showrunners (Bokenkamp and Eisendrath) weren't so busy with Redemption that they didn't catch some of these plot holes. This information about Rostov being a billionaire and blasting Katarina's name all over the world doesn't jibe with the Season 2 info we originally got about Katarina and Masha. How could Katarina be a myth and Masha just rumor?

Last edited by Tuxie400 (4/23/2017 3:43 pm)

lara1 wrote:

Homey West - intrguing catch on the sister.   They showed Kate and the father at the funeral. Even though the focus was clearly on Kate, it would have made sense to show her sister esp to tie it into Kate's mention of her later in the episode. Maybe they figured it wasnt  central enough to the story, or since it was mainly Kates's memory that's the part that most stuck with her - the comments her father made?  Its also possible her sister was an infant at the time.  More questions!

 
Homey again, LOL! But I haven't watched the funeral again to see if we see her sister, so that's a good question. Were they just so focused on Kate and her what happens to the body questions or was her sister too young to be at the funeral? Or maybe it's not even important.

Interesting thought, Homey West! I was also thinking Alexander might be Rostov's real middle name. 

I was thinking more about Katarina's "death" and did some digging into the forensics of what happens to a body that drowns in the ocean. My assumption was the body would have to emerge and wash back to shore eventually. What I found was just that. First the body would sink to the ocean floor in a semi fetal pose, no matter how deep the water or how swift the current Then, depending on the temperature, it would rise back up to the surface in the general vicinity of where it went down. This would happen anywhere from a few hours later to a few weeks later. The warmer the water, the quicker the body would rise. At temperatures of 40 degrees or below, it would take two weeks or more. From this location the water may then carry the corpse along for quite a distance, depending on the strength of the currents or if it becomes ensnared on something. Given the Science, it would seem eventually KR's body would have been discovered. I really don't think she died.

 

Tuxie400 wrote:

Interesting thought, Homey West! I was also thinking Alexander might be Rostov's real middle name. 

I was thinking more about Katarina's "death" and did some digging into the forensics of what happens to a body that drowns in the ocean. My assumption was the body would have to emerge and wash back to shore eventually. What I found was just that. First the body would sink to the ocean floor in a semi fetal pose, no matter how deep the water or how swift the current Then, depending on the temperature, it would rise back up to the surface in the general vicinity of where it went down. This would happen anywhere from a few hours later to a few weeks later. The warmer the water, the quicker the body would rise. At temperatures of 40 degrees or below, it would take two weeks or more. From this location the water may then carry the corpse along for quite a distance, depending on the strength of the currents or if it becomes ensnared on something. Given the Science, it would seem eventually KR's body would have been discovered. I really don't think she died.

 

Tuxie - I agree completely!

I'm even more convinced that Katarina is alive. You explain it from a forensic standpoint which is compelling. I remember many years ago during the tragic Laci Peterson case that her body and that of her unborn son showed up on shore 3-4 months after her 'disappearance'. I was glued to the case. She was 8 months pregnant and they had already named their unborn son, Conner. Her husband must have killed her while she was in their swimming pool, he dumped her body out to sea. Here's a clip from intouchweekly:

'...a couple walking their dog spotted a decomposing body of a late-term male fetus on the beach in Richmond, CA. The next day, the body of a recently pregnant woman washed up on the shore nearby, at this point, Laci, who was eight months pregnant at the time of her disappearance, had been missing since Dec. 23, 2002. Shortly thereafter, the body was identified to be Laci, and the fetus was confirmed to be her unborn son, whom they planned to name Conner.'

Pretty horrific story, but it reminded me that eventually some part of the body usually does appear. In Laci's case, it looked like she had been tethered to some type of anchor.
There is so much haziness around Katarina's ultimate demise, and there's a reason for it, she's alive. 

Furthermore, I'm beginning to think that somehow Red and Katarina had some kind of plan together. I really think they were in love. When Kate asked Katarina, "Is it serious" Katarina replies, "Yes" then she goes on to say it's frivolous. Well, serious and frivolous are antonyms Her first unfettered response was her true feeling. 


 

Eerie, huh? Completely tragic.

So Tuxie, I'm wondering, since you also think Katarina is alive, what do you think she's up to?
I have a couple of theories, one is that she's an adversary of his, the other is that they are working together for Liz/Masha so that she can have a good life. There's a few other theories.

1) A colossal custody battle between two parents;
2) Co-parenting anonymously;
3) A love story between Red and Katarina who, like Romeo and Juliet will live to never know their love together, but only on the other side of life, and the only shining light in their lives is Elizabeth.

Well, a girl can think, right?

Honey West #171 - well i am typing on a tiny screen today so I'm not catching all of my typos!  Lol

Thats an interesting idea about KR being a ghost spy after her disappearance. I suppose they could spin it that way. But I'm not aware she did any spying after her " death".  Or did she?  Heh heh

It would have been better if her ghost spy name was somethng else. She could then be kr, wife of constantine etc but still a " myth" as a spy.

Still dont get why Rostov changed his name.

Im also confused bt who kr really loved. Red said it was liz's father, as if disappointed it wasn't him. Kr says the American in her journal.  Kirk says it was him, i agree the better man reference was to that. At least in Kirk's mind. Red seems to think it was not true, that Kirk was a mark. Which father then was Red referring to as the father that was the only person kr ever loved?

Then kr implies to kate she is never going to end up with Raymond. But in the diary she loves the American. One is untrue. I have a feeling that only kr can answer these questions

On TBL exposed pocast, I think it was Aaron who mentioned that watching 4.17 then directly after, watching Cape May brings several things to clearer light. I might do that.

I loved the episode but I feel its left me more confused than ever!  Lol

Last edited by lara1 (4/23/2017 3:00 pm)

Here's one more thing that doesnt make sense to me. In Cape May, Red spoke of his Hobson's Choice. And at the end, kr says to Red that he saved her by saving Masha

Yet we didnt see Red save Masha in 4.17. One idea I've come up with is that it was Red after all who saved Liz  from the fire,( ie went into the house and brought her out) but then perhaps collapsed, leaving Katerina to get her away from the house once they were safely outside

Kaplan would not have seen it. Maybe she still doesnt know that. Now that we know that Kate was not at the fire, I'm thinking again that there are one or two thngs that kate doesnt know. Like how he got away - who saved him and got him to a doctor?  And Red would not have necessarily told Kate,  esp if he did not see kate for several years after that, which seems to be the case

And kr may have lied to her as well.  But we dont know. Just an idea.