The Blacklist Refugees » St. Nicholas/Red

lara1 · 10/25/2016 10:18 am

hi Colleen # 20

I really appreciate all of that info re St Nick etc that you gleaned from the comics. I don't have the comics so have no idea really what is in them. So its always interesting for me to read, especially on this topic. thanks again!

on the painting I've been thinking since the end of Season 3 and the introduction of Kirk whether the "Russian oligarch" who wanted the painting (and whose "representative" Liz was impersonating) was actually Kirk, using another alias. That would be a great twist. And that painting is a beach scene with a boat, naturally!

Which hideout is it in? I missed that I think, or maybe just forgot about it...

Colleen · 10/25/2016 2:46 pm

Hi Lara1 - I'll have to re-watch T. Earl King about the Russian oligarch - that would be a neat twist!

The hideout was in the comics - I should have explained it better Last time I read the comics was before discovering Blacklist Support Group/Refugees so didn't know to look for all the themes and clues. Trying to do that now.

Also in the comics is a scene where Red uses a fake Naval ID badge to get Liz and himself into a Naval Christmas/masquerade party (they were looking for files related to the Cabal). Anyway, many partygoers were wearing masks – trying to hide their true identities – another ongoing theme that went right over my head until now. Even more interesting is that the ID badge listed the name Henry Cobb – which the new sleuth in me googled. Henry Cobb is a Russian-speaking, Naval Intelligence character in a cold war era book titled First Salvo

First Salvo will be another book to add to my list… I’m still reading a book on St. George, then The King in Yellow (one of the comics shows Liz reading this book). And want to find a book about St. Nick and Krampus. I love reading, but am a very slow reader. At least comic books have more pictures than words

Tabasko · 10/26/2016 6:18 am

Thanks for all the comic book pieces, Colleen! Good stuff. I have all of them and we had a good discussion going on them in Summer 15. I think there are a lot of great pieces of info in them. Then the show came back on in fall and we fell off on it.

There is a good list of clues to be had there.

Laocoon · 10/26/2016 8:04 am

Great ideas!

Re the checkered mug - I may be the oldest member of this group, since I remember those checkered mugs, late 60s-early 70s. I remember getting them as a promotion or very cheap. I think it was at Mobil gas stations, you got one if you bought a certain amount of gas or something like that. Everyone had them. Our small family had 4. They stacked and that was innovative. Also they came out at a time when people were transitioning from cup and saucer to mugs on a larger scale.

I have no idea how this ties into the story. It might be tied to household formation, a time when people furnish their homes and don't have a lot of extra money to spend. Maybe when Dom came to the US? All speculation on my part.

Colleen · 10/26/2016 11:29 am

Laocoon #24 Great insight about the mugs! They did give off an old homey vibe. I’ll probably check our local thrift stores for one

Tobasco #23 Thank you for the thank you I enjoyed reading the comic book discussion - I didn't become a Blacklist fan until this Spring, so did a lot of catching up this summer. There's also a Blacklist novel coming out in the next month or two - called The Beekeeper. I'm guessing its the same Beekeeper that Red mentioned just before being kidnapped by the Kings of the Highway. Very curious how the book will be.

The Blacklist gives us a variety of extra ways to enjoy the show - be it online via facebook or twitter, comic books, video game (which I haven't looked into at all), Elizabeth Keen’s Dossier book, and now a novel. And they all seem to offer us something in terms of character development, clues, or Easter eggs. I was a fan of CSI Las Vegas and so read the accompanying novels and graphic novels. Although the mysteries were decent, they never offered anything new for the characters or overall story arcs. Blacklist gives us so much that we even have fun discussing a mug!

Tabasko · 10/26/2016 4:40 pm

Tabasko · 10/26/2016 4:43 pm

These are the images lara1 wanted posted on the topic. I will let her elaborate.

lara1 · 10/26/2016 4:43 pm

Laocoon - nice to hear from you, interesting info on the mug. I need to get a look at those! I wonder if its meant to be a kind of racing flag - like when they flag the start or end of a car race - not sure exactly as I don't follow racing, but something else to look up/1 LOL

Colleen, that's really fascinating about the Naval Christmas/masquerade party, and a fake Naval ID! LOL as if I needed more info to pack into my "Red is not Red" theory. haha. But that's really interesting, tied in a few themes!

lara1 · 10/26/2016 4:49 pm

Tabs, #26 and #27, thanks for posting! my last post crossed with yours!

All - these are the screenshots of the icon over the desk in Red's Bethesda flat. Colleen and I have more or less concluded that this is a picture of St. Nicholas. If you compare it to the icon I found online of St. Nicholas, I'm pretty sure that its the same one.

Note how the robe looks like a kind of checkered pattern (like maybe houndstooth) from afar (well at least it does, to me LOL!) but upon close up its a pattern of black crosses on a white background. That's why I'm starting to rethink perhaps a double meaning to the chess and checkers references we hear at numerous times throughout the series. Red is a chess man for sure, but also enjoys the checkers double jump! But does it have a second meaning?

So very interested in those checkered mugs that Dom (dominick?!) and Red (Nick?) are using. the plot thickens - maybe! haha

Last edited by lara1 (10/26/2016 4:57 pm)

Colleen · 10/29/2016 6:47 pm

Just remembered about a Santa reference. In Mombasa Cartel, the killer/hunter was in a bathtub full of bubbles. He covered the lower part of his face with suds and teased his mom, saying, "Ho Ho Ho."

Wonder if there are other references like this throughout the series. But nothing else comes to mind...

Last edited by Colleen (10/29/2016 6:48 pm)

lara1 · 10/29/2016 7:18 pm

Colleen - LOL! or should I say Ho Ho Ho! That is great that you remembered that. As I recall, the group had also picked up a bunch of other symbols in that episode, though I don't recall offhand what they were…will have to think - and if they might be related.

I'm sure there are other references if we were to re-watch…although I do think the "Nick's Pizza" number for Red is the most telling - LOL!

Tabasko · 10/30/2016 7:44 pm

lara1 #28: Yes, actually some of the paintings depicting St. Nicholas have even more of a checkerboard pattern if you Google them,

Colleen #30 and lara #31: Oh, I feel like there have been more of those references. I will say one of my favorite lines from way back was, "Agent Keen, I'd say my meeting with Lorca might be equivalent to you falling on your ass and landing in a pile of Christmas."

lara1 · 10/31/2016 10:23 pm

Tabs# 32 - LOL!

Yes, I feel like now that we are thinking about these references we'd probably be amazed at how many pile up, if we were to think hard and review the dialog across the series.....

deadskie13 · 11/02/2016 11:30 pm

Laocoon wrote:
Great ideas!

Re the checkered mug - I may be the oldest member of this group, since I remember those checkered mugs, late 60s-early 70s. I remember getting them as a promotion or very cheap. I think it was at Mobil gas stations, you got one if you bought a certain amount of gas or something like that. Everyone had them. Our small family had 4. They stacked and that was innovative. Also they came out at a time when people were transitioning from cup and saucer to mugs on a larger scale.

I have no idea how this ties into the story. It might be tied to household formation, a time when people furnish their homes and don't have a lot of extra money to spend. Maybe when Dom came to the US? All speculation on my part.

Aww! Thanks for the info! I didn't have any idea where the mug came from, only that I inherited one from my Great Aunt--so I did a double-take when I saw it on the show. ^-^

lara1 · 11/03/2016 11:33 am

deadskie # 13 and Laocoon - I'm thinking about that mug. Its a kind of unusual/unique/distinctive choice to have at Dom's house and then again to have Red have the same one. I wonder if its another clue that Red was part of that (Dom's) household, that he grew up in part with Dom and his family. I think this perhaps because its kind of like a mug that's been in the family for a long time. Kind of like those glasses that gas stations used to give away also, that my parents had in the kitchen cabinet for quite a while. If I took one, because I liked it or whatever, or they gave it to me, that would be a family type connection.

I think also it might mean that Dom has been in the US since at least the sixties, which I think many of us theorized back in the Artax comments. interesting.
just some random thoughts.

Edited to add: Kudos to whomever first noticed the two identical mugs - maybe that was deadskie13? Sorry I cant recall , but that was a brilliant observation!

Last edited by lara1 (11/03/2016 11:44 am)

Colleen · 11/03/2016 1:36 pm

Hello to All - haven't had a chance to read any posts lately but did find something neat about checkered pattern - apparently the Freemasons use checkered floors in their buildings to symbolize the balance between good and evil.

Here's an article about it:
http://www.hamiltondistrictcmasons.org/upload/lecture_file87.pdf

In heraldry (family crests, country shields, and such), checkered pattern means constancy, faithfulness. And get this - the // lines in heraldry can mean illegitimate child or even illegitimate son of royalty. Still working on triangle. Will text details and links with more info next chance I get.

Tuxie400 · 11/03/2016 3:16 pm

Colleen - Interesting finds on the checkered pattern and the // lines!

lara1 · 11/03/2016 4:33 pm

Colleen wrote:
Hello to All - haven't had a chance to read any posts lately but did find something neat about checkered pattern - apparently the Freemasons use checkered floors in their buildings to symbolize the balance between good and evil.

Here's an article about it:
http://www.hamiltondistrictcmasons.org/upload/lecture_file87.pdf

In heraldry (family crests, country shields, and such), checkered pattern means constancy, faithfulness. And get this - the // lines in heraldry can mean illegitimate child or even illegitimate son of royalty. Still working on triangle. Will text details and links with more info next chance I get.

Colleen, that is really fascinating about the masonic checkered floor. And the description of being master of one's fate and captain of one's soul. Makes me think of Red's reply to Madeleine Pratt when Madeleine asked Red where/how he found Liz and he replied "Fate". And Red's various speeches about being the captain of his own ship. I don't think we've had a freemason angle to an episode yet, have we? interesting. Also, did you notice that the frame around the checkered pattern consists of a pattern of plain and inverted triangles?

I love love love that reference to the double hash lines. I do think the there is something tragic about Red's own childhood past - it sounds as though he may have been orphaned, and/or perhaps had something difficult in his background. And I keep thinking that he and Constantine are related, maybe half brothers or something. I know the showruners confirmed that they are not brothers, but does that include half brothers as well? If they are, that makes the double hash meaning even more intruiging!!

Great work! really impressed!

Last edited by lara1 (11/03/2016 4:41 pm)

lara1 · 11/03/2016 4:39 pm

Also - to add to my post #38 above, remember the meaning of the script that is on the flag in the opening montage refers to something like the "limits" or the "extremes" of good and evil. I'm wondering whether those three montage symbols are all related (flag inscription, triangle and double hash).

I know we discussed the text on the flag over the summer but I can't remember where it was taken from - I believe originally from a work by Cicero, then kind of changed. I wonder if there is a further link there!

Also there is something layered on the flag. maybe its just the script that I am remembering. will be looking for checks as well! LOL

really got me thinking now! LOL

Last edited by lara1 (11/03/2016 4:42 pm)

Colleen · 11/04/2016 3:12 pm

Hello to All - thanks for the kind words and food for thought - spread a little thin lately but still love reading everyone's posts - what a great bunch of folks are on this site

With regard to the writing on the flag in the show's opening credits - Lara1 you are right - the words were about good and evil. Again that duality - St. Nick and Krampus or St. George and the Dragon. And yet Red said "no sides, only players" in Ruslan Denisov. In Gina Zanetakos, Red mentioned working on project where he'd play all sides. Maybe that makes sense for Red - he does do both good and bad things. He does bad things to obtain good ends.

On Monday, Nov. 28th I'm going to be in NYC for a few hours in the morning and signed up for the Blacklist escape game (featuring THE BOX). Its free, lasts about 20 minutes, and is for 1-4 people. I signed up for the 11am timeslot and if anyone is able/interested to join in, I'd love to have help in outwitting the box. Below is the article again about the game:

https://roomescapeartist.com/2016/10/30/escape-games-at-sony-square-nyc-the-blacklist-box-timeless-lifeboat/