The Blacklist Refugees » 4.17 Requiem - EW article, Bokenkamp, Mr. Kaplan, two photos

Tatiana · 4/14/2017 9:08 am

Whoa! We are going to find out a whole lot more! Mr. Kaplan is closer to Elizabeth than we ever thought.

http://ew.com/tv/2017/04/14/blacklist-kaplan-origin/?xid=entertainment-weekly_socialflow_twitter

lara1 · 4/14/2017 9:19 am

Thanks Tatiana! That looks like the house we saw in the spoiler photos which some of us theorized was Sam's house (could be Red's). I wonder then if "Jason" is "Sam" . I think Sam was an alias to keep Liz safe.

I wonder if young Red will appear - could be "Jason" also - although I would think they would keep that closely under wraps.

exciting!

Last edited by lara1 (4/14/2017 9:21 am)

Tatiana · 4/14/2017 9:40 am

"Jason" is "Sam" - that's a very real possibility!

I re-read this and realized Bokenkamp said that this was the first time Kaplan put on her
cleaner gloves. Very interesting. And I do think that was Sam's house, like you said Lara.

Honey West · 4/14/2017 10:00 am

OMG, is little Lizzie holding Mr. Bunny? And she's wearing her fire nightgown, too.
The way Sam told it an old friend brought Liz to him one night, scared. Now I am thinking the old friend that we thought was Red was Mr. Kaplan. If it was the night of the fire then Red would have been in no shape to have been the one who took her there. I think we have already decided that, so it always confused us as to how Liz could have been taken to him the same night if it was by Red. But if it was Kate, then that changes everything.

I suspect in the other photo she's cleaning up after Red. Just a hunch.

And I think Jason is code character name for young Raymond.

Eastcoast · 4/14/2017 10:45 am

Back when they first listed the character Jason I looked him up on social media and one of his friends said u James Spader _____________ , ___________________ .....

the post has been deleted. I thought I had posted that? I have just got to get on here in the daytime when I am more awake! I lurk in the daytime around the web when I have time and post mostly at night thinking I will remember everything. (rolling my eyes at myself)

Tatiana · 4/14/2017 10:55 am

Eastcoast wrote:
Back when they first listed the character Jason I looked him up on social media and one of his friends said u James Spader _____________ , ___________________ .....

the post has been deleted. I thought I had posted that? I have just got to get on here in the daytime when I am more awake! I lurk in the daytime around the web when I have time and post mostly at night thinking I will remember everything. (rolling my eyes at myself)

I don't remember seeing that but, wow! So those two blank spots, did 'Jason' respond?

And yes, I can relate to the nighttime/daytime posting dilemma! Sometimes I post something here and I think, where did I read that? And then I realize, wait! I read that here on the Refugees board!

lara1 · 4/14/2017 11:09 am

I am glad we are getting some Kaplan backstory. I hope that we learn how she first knew Red, as well as how she looked after Liz (and who she is to Liz, if more than a "nanny"). We got that backstory on Dembe back in Seasons 1 and 2, so it is time.

Also - in the case of Dembe's backstory, we learned that several blacklisters that Red eliminated had to do with what had happened with Dembe and his family. I wonder if we will learn similar with any Blacklisters re Kate?

I wonder if Kate disposed of the body of the person who Liz "shot" on fire night. That would be a twist. Whether or not it was her "father".

Hmmm so was it Kate who put the fulcrum in the bunny? If so then why didn't Red know? Just a thought.

lara1 · 4/14/2017 11:12 am

Eastcoast and Tatiana - well I think some of us had the first thought that Jason was code for young Red. He could definitely pass for him - and I don't think the height difference would be an issue, as they won't be showing the two Reds standing side by side and they can probably use camera angles and such.

But I do think that "present" Sam was on set for episode 4.17 and if its Sam'e house, then maybe one of the other actors is playing young Sam.

so excited!!!

lara1 · 4/14/2017 11:13 am

Honey West - it could well be that Kate brought Liz to Sam and Red has been indebted to her for that among other things. In Liz's fire memory, it looked like a woman with long dark hair who led Liz out of the fire at one point, but if Liz's memories are messed up, it could have been someone else. It would make sense for it to be Kate, I think she was there at fire night.

We shall soon find out! Well at least some of it! LOL

Eastcoast · 4/14/2017 11:17 am

Tatiana, they were naughty words!!!!! Not permitted on the board!!!

Tatiana · 4/14/2017 11:19 am

lara1 wrote:
I am glad we are getting some Kaplan backstory. I hope that we learn how she first knew Red, as well as how she looked after Liz (and who she is to Liz, if more than a "nanny"). We got that backstory on Dembe back in Seasons 1 and 2, so it is time.

Also - in the case of Dembe's backstory, we learned that several blacklisters that Red eliminated had to do with what had happened with Dembe and his family. I wonder if we will learn similar with any Blacklisters re Kate?

I wonder if Kate disposed of the body of the person who Liz "shot" on fire night. That would be a twist. Whether or not it was her "father".

Hmmm so was it Kate who put the fulcrum in the bunny? If so then why didn't Red know? Just a thought.

Yes, Lara! That makes total sense that Kate is cleaning up the dead body? or the injured body? But we're assuming she's in Sam's home.

Does that mean Kate was there on fire night? Are we making wrong assumptions that it was Katarina on fire night?

Did anyone notice that the sink/hardware/cabinetry in the photo of Kaplan with gloves on looks far too current to be from 1990 (when she would have taken Liz from fire night or soon thereafter?). Back then light colored cabinetry was in. In fact, I think the European style cabinets were the rage then, the ones with white or beige paint and then light wood on the edges and there was no hardware.

Either this is inconsistent with the timing, or it's later in the 1990s/2000s.

Tatiana · 4/14/2017 11:21 am

Eastcoast wrote:
Tatiana, they were naughty words!!!!! Not permitted on the board!!!

Rut-roh! Thanks for filling in the 'blanks' so to speak ;-)

lara1 · 4/14/2017 11:26 am

Tatiana #12 - yes, very good catch! it does look a bit later - the entire thing - the under cabinet lighting, looks like black granite countertops and the faucet. So Kate maybe became a cleaner later on. (and did not clean up after fire night)

I don't think the kitchen is in the same house, though it could be. the table and chairs don't match the spoiler photos. Actually that kitchen reminds me more of the kitchen and table in Dom's cabin though I don't think its his cabin (at least not his current one) as I'm pretty sure the sink for one thing was under a window

(I have a lot of kitchen detail stored in my head having recently renovated my kitchen! LOL)

Tatiana · 4/14/2017 11:27 am

Ok, looking at it again, I don't think Kate was at the fire. Her clothes and hands are clean. Little Liz's clothes are covered in soot as it little bunny. Crazy, but yes, it's possible it was Kate who sewed the Fulcrum into the bunny that night. I believe the 'dialogue' we have from fire night the 'man' says, "It's not here'.

lara1 · 4/14/2017 11:35 am

Tatiana #14 - that's funny, I was just thinking the opposite! LOL. That it could have been Kate having the argument and "protecting" Liz, if that was indeed her role back then, as we think it was. And she is one of the few people who call "Masha/Liz" "Elizabeth". I know we've run the dialog both ways, reversing the man/woman dialogue and it could actually work both ways - i.e. it could be as Liz heard it, or the roles could have been different.

But I enlarged the photo and you are right, little Liz's clothes are sooty and Kaplan's don't appear to be.
Unless there was so much confusion that night, everyone got out and realized Liz was still in the house and someone went back for her. I could also be completely wrong! LOL

Edited to Add: it could have been both Katarina and Kate there on fire night. there were a bunch of people. It may even have been Katarina and Kate in the argument. That would be a twist! Its not unreasonable to think that Kate helped Red take Liz from Kirk. Maybe!!!

Last edited by lara1 (4/14/2017 11:45 am)

lara1 · 4/14/2017 11:38 am

You know, I am now going to have to go back and look at Artax and whether that table and chair and tablecloth in the kitchen photo above are the same. If so, it could therefore have been in a former home of Dom's.

Probably not the case, but its too similar for me not to check it! LOL

Tatiana · 4/14/2017 11:51 am

lara1 wrote:
Tatiana #14 - that's funny, I was just thinking the opposite! LOL. That it could have been Kate having the argument and "protecting" Liz, if that was indeed her role back then, as we think it was. And she is one of the few people who call "Masha/Liz" "Elizabeth". I know we've run the dialog both ways, reversing the man/woman dialogue and it could actually work both ways - i.e. it could be as Liz heard it, or the roles could have been different.

But I enlarged the photo and you are right, little Liz's clothes are sooty and Kaplan's don't appear to be.
Unless there was so much confusion that night, everyone got out and realized Liz was still in the house and someone went back for her. I could also be completely wrong! LOL

Edited to Add: it could have been both Katarina and Kate there on fire night. there were a bunch of people. It may even have been Katarina and Kate in the argument. That would be a twist! Its not unreasonable to think that Kate helped Red take Liz from Kirk. Maybe!!!

I'm going to post the fire night dialogue. Let's pretend it's Katarina and Kate talking...hey, we have to look at it from every angle, right???

added: I bumped the Firenight dialogue which is under Blacklist History. Really interesting to think of it as Kate and Katarina!!!

Last edited by Tatiana (4/14/2017 11:54 am)

Honey West · 4/14/2017 2:16 pm

Someone had to have gotten Red to a hospital. Here are a couple of possibilities. Kate could have arrived on scene after Liz was taken from the house, bunny in hand. She and bunny would have been sooty and possibly burned. We saw years later that bunny was scorched and Liz has her mysterious scar. So Red could have had just enough left to,hand off Liz to Kate with instructions to,take her to,Sam. I still think he got her out of the house. The photo could be Kate looking after Liz once she was safely at Sam's house.

The other possibility is that someone else took Liz to Sam's house and that Kate lived with Sam and was there already. Did Red make it that far himself? Maybe Sam was the one who,got Red to medical attention, leaving Liz with Kate. It sounds like Kate knew Liz from a lot earlier in her life, with the put her in my arms as an infant line. So maybe there was always a plan that if anything happened to Red that Liz would be safe with them.

I'm still sticking with my long time ago idea that Liz's father put the Fulcrum in the bunny. Red knew it was in the bunny, but he just didn't know where the bunny was all those years, suspecting that Liz might hold the key to finding it if he needed it.

lara1 · 4/14/2017 11:20 pm

OK, I hate to do this to everyone, but I have to comment on Liz's hair in the photo with Kaplan.

And it brings me back to the two girls in the house theory again.

In the scene where "Liz" shot her "father" her hair is much longer. And in fact, in the various fire memories, there are some scenes where her hair looks much shorter (like in the Kaplan photo), and scenes where it is longer (many of the scenes in the closet for instance). And if I remember correctly, one of the scenes where Liz is running down the hall, the nightgown is slightly different and she does have the shorter hair (I need to check that).

The other strange shot of Liz in the fire memories is the one towards the end of one of them, where she appears to be outside the house looking back in. That is a strange perspective to have if she is being led out of the house - why would she see herself looking back on herself.

Anyway we may not get an answer to that, but it you look at the Connolly shooting scene memories, its the easiest way to see "liz" with the longer hair.

Unless I am totally losing my mind.

lara1 · 4/14/2017 11:27 pm

OK - if you google "young Liz Keen", and scroll down just a little bit, you'll see the picture of her shooting the gun. If you click on that, it brings up a bunch of photos and links to sites. in the bunch of photos that appears, right underneath that photo of Liz shooting the gun, you see another of her with her back towards the camera, and adult Liz facing her. Her hair is shorter there. Just an example.