The Blacklist Refugees » Episode 4.21

Tatiana · 4/10/2017 8:41 am

AlyBlacklist shows a clear close-up of the call sheet for episode 21. The name is:

Mr. Kaplan, #4!!!
https://alyblacklist.tumblr.com/image/159412254646

Ok, so in truth, we all knew she was high up there. It only makes sense. But still, it's exciting :-)

Honey West · 4/10/2017 9:48 am

"No cell phones, no photographs on set". Then again it does say they are shooting with the stunt team and there will be a safety meeting, so no distractions is probably pretty important. Plus the usual secrecy.
Thanks for posting the link, Tatiana, I haven't checked aly yet this morning. I always come here first.

Also, if you read her link to the Variety article about the potential writers strike, it makes a lot of sense as to why so many of the big shows have not announced renewals yet. That last big writers strike really messed up the season that year.

Tatiana · 4/10/2017 10:16 am

Honey West wrote:
Thanks for posting the link, Tatiana, I haven't checked aly yet this morning. I always come here first.

Also, if you read her link to the Variety article about the potential writers strike, it makes a lot of sense as to why so many of the big shows have not announced renewals yet. That last big writers strike really messed up the season that year.

Honey West - I didn't realize that you come here first, I'll be sure to post updates then, I usually do, but it seems a lot who are on this board look at other feeds.

Writers strike - yes, this would be awful. I hope for them that they are able to get some kind of reasonable solution. At least for TBL, those writers really deserve to be compensated well.
I've been out of the loop for a while, but wasn't the last writer's strike a doozy and that's when 'reality' tv became popular?
Yes, if they haven't settled with the writers, then next year really is a question mark. How do you budget and what do you do?

Eastcoast · 4/10/2017 8:27 pm

So if she is #4, then 1,2, and 3 could be Red, Liz and KR??

IowaWatcher · 4/10/2017 8:45 pm

For what it's worth, I'm reading that number as 84, rather than #4, but I could be wrong since it's blurry.

lara1 · 4/10/2017 9:12 pm

IowaWatcher - I agree, it looks like both 84 and #4. If it really is 4, then it appears that Kaplan is this season's big bad after all.

So my question would be, has she always been #4 - is she really a big bad for all of the things she has done in her life (and would she therefore eventually be eliminated anyway) or is she only now #4 because of her more recent actions.

Edited to add: and is she really Mr. Kaplan, or is that an alias, and if so who is she really??

Last edited by lara1 (4/10/2017 9:14 pm)

Tatiana · 4/10/2017 9:36 pm

It's #4 - the call sheets, if they include the Blacklister number, always include a pound sign before the number. Plus, Aly has a super clear image of it. And it's a logical conclusion based on what we know about Kaplan's involvement in Liz's life. I'm pretty sure the highest number has to do with who has the most impact, knowledge, or closeness to Liz.

IowaWatcher · 4/10/2017 11:03 pm

OK. That's a good argument for Mr. Kaplan being #4.

Yes, that is getting intense. But I'm glad that Mr. Kaplan is still around. I'm be very bummed if she gets shot, again.

TheYeti · 4/11/2017 6:29 am

It can't be 84 either, because that number has already been used for Wujing.

I'm really curious whether the finale will be Mr. Kaplan (Conclusion), which is probably the case. Therefore I'm wondering whether Kaplan is also Russian as most blacklisters from a season finale were.

I guess we'll see that in episode 17.

lara1 · 4/11/2017 7:40 am

TheYeti- it would not surprise me if it turns out that Kaplan is Russian. Then again, i think the whoke gang is - Kaplan, Naomi, Scottie, Dom and even Red, LOL Not all necessarily Russian birth, but of Russian allegiance, initially. I think a few of us have pondered from time to time whether Kate is ex-KGB. At least it seems as though she had some kind of military or other training with the way she decisively handles operations and handles firearms.

What puzzles me now though is the meaning of the list if Kate is #4 (and Dembe #10). Kate's mission seemed to be to protect Red at all costs, and by extension, Liz. So I'm now questioning if blacklisters really are threats to Liz. Unless by extension, a threat to Red is a threat to Liz.

But maybe its all about who Red really is and what his mission is (if he has one) and who is or becomes a threat to that mission.

Anyone have any thoughts on that?

Last edited by lara1 (4/11/2017 7:42 am)

Patter · 4/11/2017 8:13 am

lara1 wrote:
TheYeti- it would not surprise me if it turns out that Kaplan is Russian. Then again, i think the whoke gang is - Kaplan, Naomi, Scottie, Dom and even Red, LOL Not all necessarily Russian birth, but of Russian allegiance, initially. I think a few of us have pondered from time to time whether Kate is ex-KGB. At least it seems as though she had some kind of military or other training with the way she decisively handles operations and handles firearms.

What puzzles me now though is the meaning of the list if Kate is #4 (and Dembe #10). Kate's mission seemed to be to protect Red at all costs, and by extension, Liz. So I'm now questioning if blacklisters really are threats to Liz. Unless by extension, a threat to Red is a threat to Liz.

But maybe its all about who Red really is and what his mission is (if he has one) and who is or becomes a threat to that mission.

Anyone have any thoughts on that?

Lara I'm wondering the same the about the significance of the number. It doesn't make sense (from the characters we know on this show) that Kaplan and Dembe would be so many numbers away from one another. If I remember correctly, the only other low number we have is #7 Tom Keen? Maybe one other person?

Unless we get introductions to more of Liz, Red, or KR's family if there is a season 5??? Even then I'm not sure that they would fill in low numbers since Kirk was still at #14. I could see Red #1, and KR #2.

Tatiana · 4/11/2017 9:03 am

Blacklisters aren't always people, sometimes they are groups/institutions, etc. There's lots of possibilities for single digit Blacklisters.

Don't forget, we have characters we already know who could potentially be Blacklisters:

Katarina
Elise/Janet
Laurel Hitchens
Cynthia Panabaker
Harold Cooper (very unlikely)
Howard Hargrave
Hudson

And Blacklisters don't always die.

Honey West · 4/11/2017 9:24 am

My thoughts about the meaning of the list change all the time as we get new listers. At first I thought it was to protect Liz, but I grew to think it was also to protect Red because as he eliminated threats, others would become more, well, threatening. We saw that with Kirk, because he wasn't originally on the list. So I think the list itself is very fluid and changes, although I also think there were quite a few who have always been on it, and still are. But I also think their rankings change depending on circumstances. I'm sure Red never had Dembe or Kate on it until now. How are they ranked? I am going with how much of a threat they pose to Liz and Red and Red's organization.

As to who is number one on the list, I think it is either Red or Liz. And I am leaning towards it being Liz these days. I think that's been right in front of us all the time. Who actually poses the biggest threat to Red and his organization. Liz. Or you could say Red's love for Liz is the biggest threat. But I think he also knows that she is the biggest threat. He is and has been prepared to die for her and the only way to eliminate that threat would be to remove her. Kate tried to do just that when she helped Liz fake her death, it seemed like the best for everyone if it had worked, even though she knew Red would be severely affected by it, she also seemed to know that he would still survive it somehow, he always does.

So why is Kate's number so high? Well, I'm sure Red realizes that Kate knows that Liz is the supreme threat to him and his organization. Is she the Big Bad? Well, she may also figure that another way to keep Red protected would be to eliminate his organization and free him from that. If he is separated from it, is he in as much danger? She's already found she cannot separate him from Liz and now Agnes. Maybe she has been going after his business instead? But is Red in too deep to ever get out? I guess if we knew that the show would be over. If we get a season five, and with a looming writers strike that is certainly in question for most tv series, they could still reveal to Liz the true relationship between her and Red, but without still revealing the real question - just who is Raymond Reddington?

lara1 · 4/11/2017 10:17 am

Honey West #13- interesting thoughts. Ii have also alternated betweenRed and Liz as #1 on the list. I just had another idea:

Suppose Liz is #1 as the greatest threat to Red - for whatever reason - there could be several. But suppose she doesn't fully pose the threat as long as she doesn't know what she doesn't know, so to speak. Which may be why Red is not going to offer the info because then she becomes his enemy - and until that happens, she's an ally of sorts - with the FBI helping him to take down names on the list.

Would it be possible that she would need to be taken down if she knew? And he does not want that. I don't know, if I think it through it might not work. I'll think on it some more.

Tuxie400 · 4/11/2017 10:17 am

Tatiana - Hudson as a blacklister - now that's funny!

lara1- Maybe Kaplan will be up so high because Red sees her betraying him multiple times. I'm thinking Kaplan's top priority is Liz and Agnes. Their well-being may supercede Raymond's at this point.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (4/11/2017 3:46 pm)

Tatiana · 4/11/2017 10:35 am

Honey West wrote:
My thoughts about the meaning of the list change all the time as we get new listers. At first I thought it was to protect Liz, but I grew to think it was also to protect Red because as he eliminated threats, others would become more, well, threatening....
As to who is number one on the list, I think it is either Red or Liz. And I am leaning towards it being Liz these days. I think that's been right in front of us all the time. Who actually poses the biggest threat to Red and his organization. Liz. Or you could say Red's love for Liz is the biggest threat. But I think he also knows that she is the biggest threat.

I've thought that the ending will be when Liz shots Reddington. Liz is the #1 Blacklister. Somehow she was conditioned to kill when triggered at a very young age. Whatever that trigger is, it caused her to assassinate, first her 'father' the night of the fire, second, the Director when he threatens Red. There are other instances where she is in a trance like state, ready to shoot, but she is talked down from it.

Memory manipulation is clearly significant to the overall puzzle and I think, to the end game, particularly because we will have an upcoming episode with the memory doctor and some new memory doctor.

Tatiana · 4/11/2017 10:37 am

Tuxie400 wrote:
Tatiana - Hudson as a blacklister - now that's funny!

lara1- Maybe Kaplan will up so high because Red sees her betraying him multiple times. I'm thinking Kaplan's top priority is Liz and Agnes. Their well-being may supercede Raymond's at this point.

Glad you caught that!!! I was hoping someone would get a kick out of it!!!
Think about it, he appears under many different disguises. Hudson is an amalgam of all different doggies, literally!!! HAHA!

lara1 · 4/11/2017 11:25 am

Tatiana #17. Hudson spy dog. Lol!

lara1 · 4/11/2017 11:31 am

Tuxie400. #15. Yes, exactly. So if the list consists of those who threaten Liz, that then doesn't make sense. Which makes me think that protecting Liz is not the purpose of the list. She is integral to it somehow or else Red would not have given up on it when she "died". But now I'm thinking the list does not consist of threats to Liz.

I hope that makes sense! Lol

But then does that mean that Red is not on the list or on it? If part of his mission is to protect Liz then perhaps not. Agh going in circles!!!

lara1 · 4/11/2017 1:29 pm

So Honey West you have got me thinking again as you often do ! Lol

What if the list represents , in part, not a threat to Liz per se, but the purpose of Liz. Red said to Harold that Kirk was never on the list, and would never have been, "if he hadnt come for her", referring to Liz. We think maybe he meant a danger to Liz, but what if he meant a danger to her reason for being there, her purpose? Kirk messing up the order of things in the plan?? (Some of Red's words in Cape May also - his reason for his Hobson's choice of Liz- he thought there was an order to things)

So, what if Kaplan is so high up on the list not because she is a threat to Liz but a threat to the purpose of Liz - why Liz is needed. Can Red ever trust Kaplan not to try to take Liz away again? He couldn't trust her- that's what he said right before he shot her. And he gave her no leeway at all in the hunt with Mato.

Of course as I write this, I realize this brings me right back to one of my other thoughts - that there was more to Kaplan than what meets the eye, and was she up to something cagey with the whole Mato/Agnes thing after all?

And Red had reasons, that we are not aware of, not to trust her "ever again".

Hmm. Thoughts anyone?

Apologies etc for any typos I haven't caught. Typing on a tiny screen today!!