The Blacklist Refugees » Episode 4.16?

Honey West · 3/02/2017 12:04 am

And I wonder if whatever happens to Dembe is what prompts Red to tell Liz the truth. Or enough of it that it requires flashbacks to tell the story. Either that or Liz discovers something that prompts the flashback scenes. I really hope that whatever it is, that it involves a Liz/Red confrontation over it. That's been left hanging for way too long.

Tuxie400 · 3/02/2017 12:21 am

Honey West - Interesting thoughts about why Kaplan comes back. I'm just glad we're going to see her again!

Honey West · 3/08/2017 12:47 am

So, just thinking a bit about Dembe. I think it is very important that they test that bottle of scotch. Even if it comes up positive, Red surely must realize that it wouldn't make sense for Dembe to poison him and then make sure he got medical attention from his *77 team. Plus the fact that Dembe just wouldn't do that to him. No, I think if the poison was in the scotch that Dembe unintentionally was involved in giving it to Red. In the flashback we saw that Dembe was in the restaurant with Red, sitting just behind him, in his usual place of silently watching. Red was starting to cough, but seemed otherwise okay. Dembe had called *77 and gotten Red to the triage cube and didn't leave until he had stabilized, according to the doctor. The next time we saw Red he was in the triage cube in great distress. He sure didn't look very stable to me. So what happened that made Dembe leave in the first place. That was very unlike him. The next time we saw him, he was pulling a hood over his head and disappearing into the subway.

Here's what I am thinking. I think that sometime after he called *77 Dembe got a phone call. It was either Kate or maybe whoever might be holding or hiding her. Someone who might have her cell phone. So the *77 call goes out. If Kate's cell phone is still activated, and why not, she's supposed to be dead, whoever has it would get that call. *77 means that Red is in big trouble. If it's Kate, she might be tempted to get in touch with Dembe. If it's someone with her phone, they also might call him back. Either way, Dembe would know that Kate's phone is being used and it might get him wondering how somebody came to have it in their possession. So if it was Kate, maybe she told him to meet her somewhere, come alone, certainly don't tell Red. If it wasn't Kate then maybe the person told Dembe he has some information that he might be interested in. And thirdly, if it was someone holding Kate then they could tell him that they have her and if he wants to get her back he needs to meet them somewhere as soon as possible. Or something like that. What it boils down to is that the only possible person that could make Dembe leave Red's side at such a critical time might just be Kate. What the motivation is, we don't know that. Depends who maybe called Dembe, the guy who always has a phone.

lara1 · 3/08/2017 1:16 am

Honey West - interesting thoughts. Could go either way with the phone, but either is a distinct possibility.. Did they not mention *77 more than once? and we know Kate was always in charge of assembling the team. It would have rung on her phone. So she either got the message or whoever has the phone got the message.

It also does make me suspicious of the doctor though, LOL. You make a good point - Red did not look very stabilized to me, either. So does Dembe drop off Red, he stabilizes, appears OK then goes into acute distress again? hmmm Could just be the poison working, but still.....there's a reason why they added that detail. i.e., not just that Dembe dropped him off but that he stayed until Red stabilized. So either the doctor did something or its just pointing things away from Dembe, which I think we all think anyway! So the question is, did the doctor do anything to make it all worse?

We won't know that for another 7 weeks.....

(and yes I'm not convinced the poison was in the Scotch. could very well have been but could also be set up to frame Dembe. Come to think of it maybe that is why Red's medical history was not with the apothecary - suppose that was on purpose? if the apothecary made more than one "poison" or someone didn't want anything that could be traced back to them as the originator. And I doubt Dembe would have the knowledge to find the apothecary - someone else would have been involved....

So it could have been the doctor administering something else, maybe the inhaler, maybe even the pills he gave Red, and a fake antidote at the end. )

Last edited by lara1 (3/08/2017 1:21 am)

Honey West · 3/12/2017 7:56 pm

So here begins the tossing out of little crumbs to get us wondering about 4.16! LOL!
http://www.tvguide.com/news/the-blacklist-spoilers-dembe-kidnaps-task-force/

Like we needed coaxing. So, who are the candidates for kidnapping and why? Let the discussion/speculation begin!

Tuxie400 · 3/12/2017 9:26 pm

Oh no! Not another kidnapping! I think it will be either be Liz or Aram and he's taking one of them to a meeting with Kaplan and Dom. That goes along with the idea that a group of so-called good characters is behind the attack. From a fairy chess standpoint, they need to put Red in check so he will realize he's gone off the rails and regroup.

lara1 · 3/12/2017 10:32 pm

A task force member kidnapping! gosh. So is that because he needs their help or because he (Dembe) thinks they are behind a plot? I think in either case, the road leads back to Aram. but why I guess we'll have to wait and see.....

Tatiana · 3/12/2017 10:53 pm

Oh good! We've been thrown a crumb to obsess over for the next 5 1/2 weeks

1 Cooper
2 Aram
3 Samar
4 Donald
5 Liz

Cooper would be interesting because he would certainly get the attention of all the Intelligence organizations, he's aware of all the top top secret affairs, and he has a long history with Reddington. Plus, there's that little favor Red did for him with the operation that went sideways somewhere in the 1980s. But Cooper hasn't been very excited about helping Red lately.

Aram is fiercely loyal and he can figure out any kind of electronic/virtual coup. He's even getting handy with ammunition. He and Red have helped each other out quite a bit on more private matters. But does Dembe need a tech geek or something else?

Samar is interesting. She's extraordinarily wise and experienced. She does the work and is always prepared to a fault. Her worldly experiences may open up to places and people Dembe needs answers from or maybe he needs force and Samar's Mossad contingent are just what Dembe needs to get to the bottom of the war against Red. After all, Red chose her and she chose to 'work' for Red through the FBI. Ultimately she's Red's associate, not the FBI's.

Donald, gosh, gotta love Donald. Straight up cop. Does the right thing. Stands up for honor. But something's changed. He sees the real corruption and he's not happy about it. He's about to look into Reven Wright's murder against his boss's direct orders. He knows a lot about Red. But does he have what Dembe is looking for?

Liz. Nope. He doesn't kidnap Liz. Right? Don't we need Liz actually at the task force?

The obvious choice is Aram, but I think it would be really cool if it's Samar.

Tuxie400 · 3/12/2017 11:03 pm

lara1 - All roads lead to Aram! LOL

Tatiana - Great analysis about the odds of each task force member.

If we're mirroring Season 1, Aram will be the one! Besides, I think Aram will be able to figure out Elise/Janet was in on it.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (3/12/2017 11:04 pm)

Tatiana · 3/12/2017 11:14 pm

You're right of course, Tuxie. I have a very oddball way of looking at things

Honey West · 3/12/2017 11:16 pm

LOL! I knew this would get a conversation going! The only one I don't think it will be is Liz. I don't think Dembe would need to kidnap her in order to get her to help him. It's got to be someone who probably wouldn't help him willingly. Samar might help him willingly, but on the other hand if she is still really working for Red, Dembe might not want to take the chance of making it look like she's helping him willingly so the kidnapping might be a cover. The same might go for Aram. I can't think of why he might want or need Cooper. Or Ressler. Although I think if he needed Ressler for something he might actually have to kidnap him in order to get him to help. I hope whoever it is doesn't meet an untimely end. They have a new agent coming on board. I hope that guy is "in addition to" and not "a replacement for".

lara1 · 3/12/2017 11:26 pm

HW and Tatiana - I agree that it's not Liz. Dembe could just show up in her apartment. Especially as Tom is away, he could have a "private word" with her. And he may, in addition to any "kidnapping".

I think the way that they are setting this up, the Task Force will be out looking for Dembe. Hence, Dembe will have to show up at the home of one of them (whomever according to the plot, he needs help from, or, thinks may be behind "the plot"), in order to either get their help or get answers. He just won't be able to walk into the Post Office, and if he otherwise tries to talk to the person, he'll be arrested (cue Ressler, LOL)

I think its Aram. But my second choice would be Ressler. I also don't think its Cooper because I think Red could just deal with him directly. Well Is suppose that goes for anyone on the task force, really. So what the heck is Dembe up to? LOL

lara1 · 3/12/2017 11:34 pm

I just had a further thought on this. Why would Dembe need to kidnap someone on the task force? I think we all pretty much think that Dembe did not poison Red, at least not knowingly or intentionally (unless as part of a plot that Red can't remember). Why can't Dembe just discuss this threat, and his thoughts on who is behind it, with Red? Why does he need to kidnap someone?

Is it because Dembe thinks Kate is behind it? And does he need someone's help in trying to help find her? Cue Aram?

It just doesn't make sense to me that Dembe could not have gone to Red with his suspicions, or ideas on who is behind the plot, and help to foil it, unless he suspects Kate is involved. I can see no other way that Dembe would leave Red's side. (assuming Dembe is innocent) perplexing.

Last edited by lara1 (3/12/2017 11:37 pm)

TheYeti · 3/13/2017 10:24 am

To me it seems like there can be three people behind the poisoning, who know enough about Red's medical history: Kaplan, Dembe and Katarina.

I believe Dembe and Kaplan would not hurt him in any way, so Dembe might actually be looking for Kate for help.

BTW, IMDb has listed a stunt double for Leon Rippy (hunter) and Clark Middleton (Glen Carter) as well. It seems like the double episode will be a lot about Kaplan's backstory, though Kirk is also going to appear in flashbacks.

Tuxie400 · 3/13/2017 10:36 am

Yeti - I agree those three would know Red's medical history. And I do believe a group of characters sympathetic to Red might be behind the attacks. I'm sitting here smiling - just imagining Glen in an action scene. And it will be great to see Mountain Man again. I wonder if he will be wearing plaid?

Tuxie400 · 3/13/2017 11:14 am

The earlier Greek version of Philomena was Philomela, and that version has sisters, birds, and a severed head - all motifs that have been used this season. I've got to give credit for this info to roominthecastle on tumblr. My own interpretation is written below, highlighting the parts that mirror what we've seen this season.

In the myth, Philomela was the daughter of the king of Athens, and her older sister, Procne, had married Tereus, the king of Thrace. Tereus comes to get Philomela to take her to visit her sister, but on the trip becomes overcome by lust and rapes her. Then he cuts out her tongue, so she couldn't tell what happened and imprisons her in a cabin in the woods. But Philomela weaves a tapestry that shows what happened and sends it to her sister. The sister is enraged and kills her son by Tereus and feeds part of his body to her husband. When Tereus finds the severed head of this son, he goes after the sister with an ax, meaning to behead them. The sisters pray to Gods to turn them into birds to escape. Procne is turned into a nightingale and Philomela into a swallow. Later, Tereus is turned into a colorful bird called a hoopoe.

Honey West · 3/13/2017 3:00 pm

Tuxie400 wrote:
The earlier Greek version of Philomena was Philomela, and that version has sisters, birds, and a severed head - all motifs that have been used this season. I've got to give credit for this info to roominthecastle on tumblr. My own interpretation is written below, highlighting the parts that mirror what we've seen this season.

In the myth, Philomela was the daughter of the king of Athens, and her older sister, Procne, had married Tereus, the king of Thrace. Tereus comes to get Philomela to take her to visit her sister, but on the trip becomes overcome by lust and rapes her. Then he cuts out her tongue, so she couldn't tell what happened and imprisons her in a cabin in the woods. But Philomela weaves a tapestry that shows what happened and sends it to her sister. The sister is enraged and kills her son by Tereus and feeds part of his body to her husband. When Tereus finds the severed head of this son, he goes after the sister with an ax, meaning to behead them. The sisters pray to Gods to turn them into birds to escape. Procne is turned into a nightingale and Philomela into a swallow. Later, Tereus is turned into a colorful bird called a hoopoe.

You find the most interesting things, Tuxie400! (wink)

Tuxie400 · 3/13/2017 4:02 pm

I think I posted the Philomena/Philomela info under the wrong episode. Sorry! Philomena is supposed to be 4.18.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (3/13/2017 5:22 pm)

Honey West · 3/17/2017 10:15 pm

Hisham said today that he was waiting to get permission to post a photo of the cover of the 4.16 script, with the title.
Wanna bet it's "Dembe Zuma #3"? Or somewhere in the top 10 anyway.
or it could be something totally unexpected.

lara1 · 3/17/2017 10:20 pm

Honey West! You are so insightful. You know, that is a good point. There must be a reason why the titles haven't been released yet for 4.16 or 4.17 though I think we had a hint the latter might be related to "Kathryn". But that just aligns with what we'e already been told about it being the Kaplan backstory. 4.16 is a mystery. Maybe they haven't decided the title yet - i.e. the blacklister name. But I like your idea that it could be something entirely more......interesting.