The Blacklist Refugees » St. Nicholas/Red

lara1 · 10/19/2016 12:39 pm

St. Nicholas link to Red - I saw some interesting commentary (can't remember where in order to find it again LOL) on the series pilot. I don't take credit for pulling this first part together, but it goes something like this:

Raymond Red Reddington disappears on Christmas Eve
He abandons a RED car, full of Christmas gifts
He disappears into the snow
He turns up again 20+ years later at the Post Office (Where children's Santa letters go)
He brings a Blacklist (of "bad" or naughty people)
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Now I don't think that Red is Santa, but I've also been pondering the find by Colleen P of what might be an icon of St. Nicholas over Red's desk in his Bethesda "flat". As Colleen P previously pointed out, St. Nicholas is the patron saint of children, sailors and those who have been suffered an injustice. I did some more reading and found out that St. Nicholas has several miracles attributed to him, among which are saving from death a number of children, ensuring safe passage for a ship caught in a violent storm, and bringing back a sailor who had died on that ship during that storm. Then of course the tie-ins to Christmas, both the FBI and Red version of the Christmas Eve story......

St. Nicholas is, I believe, an important saint in Russia. And, for the 2017 theories, the last Tsar of Russia was named Nicholas......... Hmmm

Additionally, in his personal life, Nicholas was orphaned at a young age and raised by his uncle. Full disclosure: one of my theories is that Red's bio parents died when he was young and he was either adopted or raised by another family member. So this leads right into that theory, but, equally it may not have any such meaning. Also one of the ideas I toyed with was that Red was partially raised in Dom's household. Just speculation at this point, not enough clues one way or the other except what felt like a familial relationship - but that could mean several things.

So what does a potential St. Nicholas link mean? I don't know but some options might include:

1. The parallels of the life and legend of St. Nick with that of Red - can we find any others?
2. Was Nicholas the "real" "prior" name of Red - if Red is indeed an assumed or alternate identity
3. Is Red a descendent of, or otherwise related to Nicholas II, last Tsar of Russia (only if Red is indeed Russian); or is there some other connection (eg, his family had close military or other ties with the Tsar's regime) and/or therefore still may have ties to the Romanov family
4. Was Red raised by Dom, or is he in some way related via family (if Dom is short for "Dominick" which we don't know for sure - I'm thinking even though the origin of the two names, Dominick and Nicholas don't seem to be related, conceptually you have the name "Nick" added onto the end of "Dom").

I also found some intriguing things related to the celebration of St. Nicholas in Serbia. Honey West, myself and others did some digging over the summer for Serbian references in the series, and there were several and many in fact when added to those references to neighboring nations (Bosnia, Croatia). Honey West saw Serbian language books on Dom's bookshelf, though I haven't picked up on any Serbian references thus far in Season 4.

This is all really intriguing though of course just speculation. I attach a link to a St. Nicholas website, its at the Serbia page, but if you move around the site there is a lot of general info on St. Nicholas.

I would love to hear anyone else's thought on this!

http://www.stnicholascenter.org/pages/serbia/

Tuxie400 · 10/19/2016 10:18 pm

lara1 - Fascinating info on St Nicholas! "St. Nicholas is the patron saint of children, sailors and those who have been suffered an injustice." This sounds like the saint Red would need. I thought the icon looked more like St. George though.

lara1 · 10/19/2016 11:29 pm

Hi Tuxie 400 #2 - thanks for reading and your comments! I think there are 2 icons: one of St George, above the fireplace in the flat, and another, over the desk on the other side of the flat. Colleen P first pointed it out and suggested it might be St Nicholas, and I believe, that along with the St George Icon and the other larger painting over the fireplace, all 3 were also in the shipping container.

I have been trying to work out how to get a screenshot of the icon, to no avail. it can be briefly glimpsed when Liz picks up the fulcrum case and is about to turn to exit the flat. The robe on the Saint in the icon looks a bit like a checkerboard (for lack of a better term), and if you google St. Nicholas icons, it brings up a lot of different ones, including the ones with the kind of checkered robe. I'm still trying to snatch a screenshot of it though to make it easier to compare.....

Last edited by lara1 (10/19/2016 11:30 pm)

lara1 · 10/20/2016 12:20 am

Edited October 20 to note that I found another picuture online of the same icon that is over the desk in the flat (link attached below.) It is St Nicholas. Firstly, a huge thank you to Colleen who first noted - I believe during the summer discussions over at BSG - the icon over the desk and looked into it to come up with the disucssion that it very well could be St. Nicholas, but did not find a positive ID online. I also think its significant that its above the desk in the flat - a sort of more private space, above the photo of Liz's graduation and the black and white portrait of a man (whom I don't think we've identified but must be a close connection, family or otherwise).

So - does St. Nicholas represent "who" Red is, vs his "mission" - the St. George icon over the fireplace? And I'm wondering if we've been reading the St. George icon a little bit too literally - St. George saved the princess from a lake (water) but suppose it is just about saving the princess, maybe from the fire (over the fireplace). hmmmm

here is the link to the St. Nicholas icon. If you scroll down to the icons on the right of the page, its the first one under St Nicholas - top left corner. You can also see it if you google St. Nicholas Russian icons.

Can anyone in the group read Russian? In the icon St. Nicholas is holding an open book, with several words visible.
Its clear if you zoom in once you open the image in the attached link.

http://museumofrussianicons.org/en/education/family-school-programs/for-teachers-k-12/

(NOTE: if anyone knows how I can get the actual screencap on here as well, per below, I'll do that too.)
______________________________________________________________________________________
All - OK, with a lot of fiddling around, I managed to get a copy - both a screen cap of the scene with liz and the icon in the background, and the icon on its own. I also managed to lighten it so that its easier to see.

I can't seem to figure out how to post it here though for others to view. Would anyone know how to do that? I tried a copy and paste, though I doubted it would work, and it didn't

thanks

Note: further edited this morning to remove references to St Patrick in 2 places (LOL what was in my morning coffee!!!) and replace with St. Nicholas.

Last edited by lara1 (10/20/2016 11:13 am)

Tabasko · 10/20/2016 11:09 am

lara, I can help with that. The easiest thing for now would be to send them to me.

Honey West · 10/20/2016 11:44 am

Interesting stuff, lara1!

Oh good, Tabasko, I'm glad you have a way to do it. I was reading about using the [img] tag, and putting a test photo on tinypic.com, but it wouldn't accept the photo on there and so the link wouldn't work to display the photo.

Colleen · 10/20/2016 11:10 pm

Hi Everyone! Neat to see the St.Nicholas / Red topic! Between St. Nicholas, St. George, and all the saint references throughout the series, lots to think about.

Lara1 you're right - the second icon is definitely St. Nicholas. The book he is holding is of the Gospel. Don't know if there is a specific page it's supposed to be though.

I LOVE the idea of the Blacklist being Santa's naughty list :-)

Get this - St. Nicholas is also the patron saint of repentant thieves/criminals - kinda timely given Dembe's prayers for forgiveness.

I'm online via my phone which means for some reason I can't post emogies right now. Just imagine little smiley faces everywhere. And for this topic they are wearing Santa hats :-)

lara1 · 10/20/2016 11:22 pm

Colleen, Santa hat emogies LOL!

I'm starting to think there really is something to Red and St. Nicholas, something personal to him.
I suppose we'll have to re-watch all the episodes now for St. Nicholas clues! LOL. Well there are an awful lot of church and clergy references in the series, at least I have those noted! But I think there is something with the red and white also. Tired now, can't think, but will come back with some more thoughts.....

Last edited by lara1 (10/20/2016 11:22 pm)

Honey West · 10/21/2016 1:26 am

Well, his phone calls are always from Nick's Pizza. (wink)

Colleen · 10/21/2016 10:03 am

Nick's Pizza! I love it Honey West! Reminds me of the Blacklist Support Group's "Survive the Summer 2016" page - showed Red packing on weight from an addiction to Seymour Buns hot dogs.

Maybe the Blacklist Gnomes are really Santa's elves

lara1 · 10/21/2016 12:23 pm

Honey West #9 - LOL! Nick's pizza. that's funny, but actually its also a good point - is it another "hint" as to who Red is - albeit a tongue in cheek one! LOL

Colleen - yes gnomes. ha!

Last edited by lara1 (10/21/2016 12:24 pm)

Tatiana · 10/21/2016 1:14 pm

Nick's pizza? Oh my goodness, y'all are too funny!!!

deadskie13 · 10/23/2016 8:01 pm

It's certainly nothing technical or official, but I'm thinking St. Nicholas surely must enjoy hanging out with animals, on account of all those reindeer. And Red does seem to have a love of puppy dogs and kitty cats and elephants and such. What I mean is, nice catch lara1!

lara1 · 10/23/2016 11:33 pm

Baby in a manger. I'm just going to add to this thread. Tatiana's observation on Red's comment in 4.05 - that in the church, he sleeps like a "babe in a manger." That's a pretty obvious Christmas reference. Pointing back to St. Nick. What the exact link though is, I am still pondering.....

thanks deadskie13. Good comment about the animals!

I'm also thinking the emphasis of St. Nick on children, not just bringing them gifts and nice things at Christmas, but being kind to them (which Red is, the latest example, Skylar, we saw that also in Ladly Ambrosia, with her son, etc.) So was Red really the one who brought Liz out of the fire as well? hmmm. lots to ponder, but its time to sleep! LOL

Last edited by lara1 (10/23/2016 11:37 pm)

Colleen · 10/24/2016 11:02 am

Howdy Everyone!

I’m re-reading the Blacklist “Arsonist” comics (issues 6-10) that occur during Christmas season. Its chock full of fires, ballerinas, monster refs, a few birds, Solomon with a dead deer (hope it wasn’t Rudolph), and Red telling Liz to take a breath, relax or else she’ll go mad – that even fugitives need a holiday.

Lots of neat Christmas tidbits throughout. In issue 6 Red tells Liz that he promised a woman he liked that he’d dress as Krampus for a parade. But he couldn’t get the costume right, the woman teased that he was scarier without the costume. Then Red told Liz, “We never did make it to the parade.”

Some background about Krampus:
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/krampus-could-come-you-holiday-season-180957438/?no-ist
St. Nick and Krampus travel together to visit children’s homes. St. Nick rewards good behavior and Krampus punishes bad behavior. According to the article above, “misbehaved kids are beaten with birch branches or can disappear, stuffed into Krampus' sack and hauled off to his lair to be tortured or eaten.”

This article mentions “a dual personality” when it comes to Krampus:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/12/131217-krampus-christmas-santa-devil/

Others consider Krampus to be St. Nick’s evil twin, to tell a story of good vs. evil :
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/children-wallow-fear-darker-santas-sidekicks/story?id=9386980

Its interesting that Red ended up not wearing the Krampus costume. He is willing to punish adults who do wrong, but he is protective of children. When children do wrong (like Liz shooting her dad), he tends to blame the adults for their misdeeds (there should never have been a gun around you) or put more weight on mitigating circumstances (Arioch Cain - a teen put a bounty on Liz because her mom died in the UREA bombing).

lara1 · 10/24/2016 11:23 pm

hi Colleen, that information is really fascinating. I need to read through all of the links but I really like that concept - its' like the "Nick" concept combined with the "mirror image" concept. thanks for putting that together, I can't wait to dig in!

deadskie13 · 10/25/2016 12:20 am

Colleen! Your entire post is genius! Thanks for sharing all the info. ^-^ (I read the comics, too, and keep meaning to give them a proper once over.)

That being said, I have something that will pale in comparison considerably, but I'm tossing it out there nonetheless. :D In the whole Luther Braxton conclusion, Elizabeth's "safe place" that she runs from her more detrimental memories, is a Christmas tree lot. If you toss it into the whole Saint Nick/Red connection, you have Lizzy being safe by Red's side. ^-^

lara1 · 10/25/2016 12:59 am

deadskie13 #17. Well, I really like that!! (closest thing I could find to Happy Nick emoji, LOL)

Last edited by lara1 (10/25/2016 12:59 am)

lara1 · 10/25/2016 1:03 am

Copying over part of deadskie13 observation on the checkered mug that both Dom (Artax) and later Red (Esteban) use, and my response from the Mirrors in the Blacklist discussion, to include the Nicholas references:

I'm going to check out the mug. Reason being, firstly I love to go back and look at what others noticed and I didn't; and, when I first looked at the St. Nicholas icon on the wall in Red's apartment, I thought the robe St. Nicholas was wearing was a checkerboard -pattern it does looks like that from a distance. When you look closer, you realize that it is a pattern of black crosses on a white background. .And, Dom as well as Red having the mug, and maybe "Domi-nick" for Dom's name

And I just made another reference from "Nick" to Red - his chess and checkers mentions throughout the series....

Last edited by lara1 (10/25/2016 1:05 am)

Colleen · 10/25/2016 9:31 am

Thanks for the kind words, Lara1 and Deadskie13 I'm still going through the comics for more Christmas clues. Good point Deadskie13 about the Christmas Tree lot being Liz's safe place. Lara1 I have to check out the matching mugs. Wonder if Red swiped it from Dom’s place during his stay there

This isn’t related to St. Nick, but speaking of the comics and Red swiping stuff – one of Red’s hideouts contained two paintings. The first depicts a ballerina (that I’m assuming is priceless and was stolen or purchased at auction). The second is none other than the Van Gogh featured in T. Earl King that Liz was pretending to buy!

Here’s a link about the Van Gogh painting being recovered in 2016:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/30/van-gogh-paintings-discovered-in-italy-14-years-after-they-were/
Timeline-wise this means that Red got his hands on the Van Gogh during or immediately after T. Earl King, kept it at his hideout for a few years, then the painting made its way to the Italian mafia before being recovered by the police. Imagine the story Red could tell about this painting – maybe he traded the painting for a favor and then set up the mobster to ensure all the stolen artwork would be returned to the Van Gogh museum