The Blacklist Refugees

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3/07/2017 1:44 pm  #301


Re: Episode 4.15, "The Apothecary" Discussion

Tatiana wrote:

Except for Liz's scar ...what happened to that?!  -- Patter

Hi Patter! Nice to see you ;-)

That dratted scar....It was so very important in the Pilot!
Maybe Megan Boone gets an allergic reaction to the makeup for that scar so they just hide her arm (and her nervous habit of rubbing her wrist)! 

You too! I can't let the scar go. I try, but then I look at my own wrist and remember Liz's Season 1 Wrist. It was a character. RIP wrist. 

Ok now back on topic Patter.

 

3/07/2017 2:15 pm  #302


Re: Episode 4.15, "The Apothecary" Discussion

Hahaha!!!!!  Love your post, Patter! Yes, it was it's very own character! Dropped like a hot potato! That's one tough industry lol!

I would just have to think they'll need to bring it back. And if they don't why, us posters will have to get out the virtual pitchforks! ;-)


"I could tell you how to win a marathon, but you're assuming it's a 26.2 mile race. It's not. It's a 6.2 mile race that begins at mile 20." Raymond Reddington
 

3/07/2017 2:44 pm  #303


Re: Episode 4.15, "The Apothecary" Discussion

Tatiana wrote:

Except for Liz's scar ...what happened to that?!  -- Patter

Hi Patter! Nice to see you ;-)

That dratted scar....It was so very important in the Pilot!
Maybe Megan Boone gets an allergic reaction to the makeup for that scar so they just hide her arm (and her nervous habit of rubbing her wrist)! 

 
Trust me, I look for that scar every chance I get. Maybe that's why Liz has been favoring long sleeves. Of course it is winter. LOL!


“I am exactly who I am. And I can assure you, I’m a far more interesting Raymond Reddington than Raymond Reddington ever was."
 

3/10/2017 8:59 pm  #304


Re: Episode 4.15, "The Apothecary" Discussion


The Blacklist is back to imagery from Alice Through the Looking Glass with The Apothecary episode. Remember Season 3’s Solomon Part I was heavy on dialog and imagery from the Lewis Carrol classic. The Apothecary features a backwards world of time and words just like the Alice book did.

Notice the boxing poster on the wall in photo. It shows the words backwards because the scene was shot from a mirror.  There is an earlier look at the scene where the words are going forwards and Cooper and Aram are in opposite places. The poster says No train, No pain, No gains. Perhaps this is a clue in Red’s murder mystery. Let me know if you have ideas about that. This is similar to when Alice finds a book of poetry where Jabberwocky has reversed printing she can read only by holding it up to a mirror.

The whole episode with the events of Red’s poisoning told in reverse is similar to the White Queen’s situation in Through the Looking Glass. Time for her always runs backwards. The White Queen and many other characters in the book are Chess pieces come to life. Red, too, has been playing a game of chess in the Blacklist.

Recent episodes of The Blacklist, including the Apothecary, have drawn on the imagery of chess, just as Through the Looking Glass did. Thanks to Tessa of Criminal Minds and the Keen Minds podcast for catching so much of the chess symbolism! I would never have thought of the name Hightower (our Blacklister) as being symbolic of the rook piece in chess without Tessa pointing it out. In Medieval times, armies used a high tower on wheels to scale the walls of their opponent’s castle. The rook in Chess can represent the castle or this high tower.

Red’s castle, the flat where he has all his treasures, has been breached and the king is left unprotected. He lost one of his knights when he shot Kaplan, and now his other knight, Dembe is missing. In chess, if the king is left unprotected, the game is over. I look forward to seeing Red’s next gambit.

I’m still doing research for a post on Red’s chess game. Maybe I’ll be ready to post it later this weekend.
 
 
 
 

Last edited by Tuxie400 (3/10/2017 9:13 pm)

 

3/10/2017 9:26 pm  #305


Re: Episode 4.15, "The Apothecary" Discussion

Interesting thoughts, Tuxie400.  Of course you know me with my mirror fascination and reverse images!

And don't forget that "All Along the Watchtower" closes out the episode.....

To me. a lot of the series follows the Alice In Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass imagery.  I started to pick up on it during the Luther Braxon fire memories, with Liz as "Alice" but it may be evident earlier on in the series too.
I'd like to figure out the "Alice" part of it as it relates to Liz but I always hit a dead end.  So I am interested in your post.

Last edited by lara1 (3/10/2017 9:30 pm)

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3/10/2017 9:58 pm  #306


Re: Episode 4.15, "The Apothecary" Discussion

lara1 - While I was researching Alice Through the Looking Glass today, I found something very interesting. A book titled "The Cuckoo Clock" by Mrs. Molesworth was a popular British children's book in the Victorian era, along with the Alice books .It's a fantasy story in which orphan Griselda is sent to live with two ancient great aunts. She shrinks in size and has several adventures with the cuckoo from the clock, including one where she goes to Butterflyland. That part made me think of the butterflies in Lady Ambrosia. What if the Alice books and The Cuckoo Clock were read to Liz/Masha as a child, and Red thinks reminders of them will help her shake some memories loose?

 

3/10/2017 10:02 pm  #307


Re: Episode 4.15, "The Apothecary" Discussion

Tuxie400 - I know that there was a thread somewhere recently where you talked about royalty references and chess pieces in Through the lOoking Glass.

then, in alice in Wonderland, we have the King and Queen of Hearts, which are playing cards, along with other cards, and they have that mock trial and the Queen is saying "off with their heads" or something like that.  And playing cards and card tricks keep coming up in the series.  I remember the episode where Liz goes to question someone about a case and he can't speak, but just pushes a playing card toward her - either a king of hearts of king of diamonds.  That book also has the white rabbit, going doing the rabbit hole, alice changing shape and size (large then small), the mad hatter etc.

so now I am thinking - what if Alice in Wonderland is telling the story of Liz, while Through the Looking Glass is telling the story of Red?  I will give some further thought to that....

 

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3/10/2017 10:08 pm  #308


Re: Episode 4.15, "The Apothecary" Discussion

hi Tuxie400 - our posts just crossed!  that's really interesting about the cuckoo clock. book  it definitely has some meaning showing up twice in the same season.  I think overall, Red is running out of time and there is another reason why he has come back at this point in time.

With these three books, there is also an English theme going on though how that fits in, I don't know.

Interesting thought about whether those books were read to Liz as a child.  A comparable would be Liz reading the Wizard of Oz to the child in Season Three.  And that is another fantasy book where a child wakes up in a fantasy world and somehow gets back home.  Same with the Alice books, Alice stumbles into an alternate reality but does make her way back home.  And we know about "home" and Red's quest for it.  Not that I know what that means.....!

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3/10/2017 10:10 pm  #309


Re: Episode 4.15, "The Apothecary" Discussion

I really think Flat Cat represents the Cheshire Cat/Dinah in the Alice books. I think the cat was shown to indicate the setting and as another symbol of the Alice world.

There was a recent episode at a Poker tournament where they focused on the Queen of Diamonds. I can't remember which one that was. Anyway that made me think of Alice. And there have been a lot of rabbit references since January.

Your thought about Wonderland being Liz and Looking Glass being Red is intriguing. I'll have to think about that too!

Last edited by Tuxie400 (3/10/2017 10:11 pm)

 

3/10/2017 10:16 pm  #310


Re: Episode 4.15, "The Apothecary" Discussion

lara1 - You are so right about all those books involving a child in an alternate reality. Masha had an alternate life as Liz. I think you're on to something there.

 

3/10/2017 10:18 pm  #311


Re: Episode 4.15, "The Apothecary" Discussion

Tuxie400 - ah yes, flat cat!  I don't remember what the Cheshire cat did, other than grin.  I wonder if delving into that will give us a hint as to the meaning of the opening scene in the episode?  

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3/10/2017 10:19 pm  #312


Re: Episode 4.15, "The Apothecary" Discussion

And yes, several poker games and poker game references this season too!

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3/10/2017 10:28 pm  #313


Re: Episode 4.15, "The Apothecary" Discussion

Tuxie400 - I just read that in the book, the Cheshire Cat first appeared to Alice in the duchess' house, in her kitchen.
Do you remember when we first saw flat cat?  Liz was in the flat, and the cat was on the ledge in the kitchen cutout in the flat.......So, then who is the Duchess, who owns the flat?

I sometimes wonder whether the characters in the books actually reflect characters in the series - the Mad Hatter may be Red, Alice is Liz, and so on.  So who are the King and Queen of Hearts, The White Queen, The Red Queen, and so on.....Not that I know, haha
 

Last edited by lara1 (3/10/2017 10:28 pm)

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3/10/2017 10:31 pm  #314


Re: Episode 4.15, "The Apothecary" Discussion

Here's what Wikipedia says about the Cheshire cat:
Alice first encounters the Cheshire Cat at the Duchess' house in her kitchen, and later on the branches of a tree, where it appears and disappears at will, and engages Alice in amusing but sometimes perplexing conversation. The cat sometimes raises philosophical points that annoy or baffle Alice; but appears to cheer her when it appears suddenly at the Queen of Heartscroquet field; and when sentenced to death, baffles everyone by having made its head appear without its body, sparking a debate between the executioner and the King and Queen of Hearts about whether a disembodied head can indeed be beheaded. At one point, the cat disappears gradually until nothing is left but its grin, prompting Alice to remark that 'she has often seen a cat without a grin but never a grin without a cat'.

The Cheshire Cat sounds a lot like Red. I've bolded the parts that could relate to him.
 

Last edited by Tuxie400 (3/10/2017 10:31 pm)

 

3/10/2017 10:34 pm  #315


Re: Episode 4.15, "The Apothecary" Discussion

I don't think everyone in the Alice books get represented on the Blacklist. I think the writers just like to use the Alice imagery.

 

3/10/2017 11:56 pm  #316


Re: Episode 4.15, "The Apothecary" Discussion

I had a long post but just lost it!

Suffice it to say, I enjoyed immensely your posts, Tuxie and Lara. Keen observations!! I had been mulling about Hightower and the Queen of Diamonds and now we have some explanation :-) Thanks!

 


"I could tell you how to win a marathon, but you're assuming it's a 26.2 mile race. It's not. It's a 6.2 mile race that begins at mile 20." Raymond Reddington
 

3/11/2017 11:12 am  #317


Re: Episode 4.15, "The Apothecary" Discussion

Tatiana - I'm glad you enjoyed the Alice discussion. So sorry you lost your long post. Maybe you could repost some of it this weekend.

 

3/11/2017 11:20 am  #318


Re: Episode 4.15, "The Apothecary" Discussion

<3 Thanks Tuxie :-)  I really loved your ideas! Hopefully I'll get caught up again and can contribute more soon! I do LOVE how we can be an active part of this story though!

RABBITS: Rabbits - The Courier, the writer who's house Red habitates. Liz comes to the house, Red is reading letters to the editor from the writer who occupied the house, daily letters to The Washington Post, Red chuckles and reads, "Dear Mr. Bradley, what is up with all the rabbits..."


 

Last edited by Tatiana (3/11/2017 11:26 am)


"I could tell you how to win a marathon, but you're assuming it's a 26.2 mile race. It's not. It's a 6.2 mile race that begins at mile 20." Raymond Reddington
 

3/23/2017 4:49 pm  #319


Re: Episode 4.15, "The Apothecary" Discussion

OK, I'm all caught up. I'll read this thread now but in the meantime I just have to say OMG Dembe

 

3/23/2017 10:16 pm  #320


Re: Episode 4.15, "The Apothecary" Discussion

Hi Decca!  I'm glad the UK is close to us in scheduling!  

You'll find loads of discussion on this thread!  Also there's a thread about who poisoned Red under the discussion section.  That one may have some bits in its about Redemption too though.  I don't recall if there was that much, though.  

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