The Blacklist Refugees » Episode 4.15, "The Apothecary" Discussion

lara1 · 3/02/2017 5:47 pm

A couple of people have mentioned that the flat looks different. I was thinking that as well. I think its the same flat, but the furniture is arranged slightly differently and maybe the stuff on the shelves.
Also, I had the idea that the photos and pictures over the desk, against the back brick wall, had been re-arranged. I seem to remember the St. Nicholas icon being more to the left on that wall.

Will have to look at it all more closely!

Tuxie400 · 3/02/2017 6:16 pm

lara1 - I still think the inhaler was used to prominently not to have been involved in the poisoning somehow. In the front, the plague was spread using a spray atomizer. In Karakurt, Andropov and Liz spread the virus by touch.

Tessa, after seeing the men in plaid in the fire memories, she went back and rewatched the first two seasons looking for plaid. Every time Tom was doing something deceitful in Season 1, he was wearing a plaid shirt. And she found many other scenes where people wearing plaid were doing some deceitful or something was not as it seemed. I can't remember all the examples.

lara1 · 3/02/2017 7:23 pm

Tuxie400 #242 - thanks for the info on plaid. That is really fascinating. The most obvious examples that I recall, apart from the plaid blanket in Red's flat, where we kind of thought something was off, were Dom wearing a plaid shirt in Artax: mountain man wearing a plaid shirt and Kaplan wearing it as well (Aha, I thought MM was not just a wilderness man, can't wait to see if that is true) ; also, after Liz's "death", in the shoot out scene outside the ambulance, one of Solomon's men is dead on the ground in front of the ambulance and he is wearing a plaid shirt. Interesting!

Honey West · 3/02/2017 8:25 pm

Lara1 and Tatiana, yes, I think we are pretty sure that Dembe is being framed. But, of course, you never know. And when discussing the apothecary they said his toxins mimic the symptoms of something and then the cures delay them finding what really happened so the person dies eventually and it's attributed to "natural" causes and not poison. If that makes any sense. LOL!

But it might have been in the scotch whatever was used to start the process, say an allergic reaction, and then the persons own inhaler or other meds would do the rest of the work. Something like that.

Honey West · 3/02/2017 8:28 pm

lara1 wrote:
A couple of people have mentioned that the flat looks different. I was thinking that as well. I think its the same flat, but the furniture is arranged slightly differently and maybe the stuff on the shelves.
Also, I had the idea that the photos and pictures over the desk, against the back brick wall, had been re-arranged. I seem to remember the St. Nicholas icon being more to the left on that wall.

Will have to look at it all more closely!

It could be that they needed to move to a new set and just attributed any differences to things just getting moved around as a person might do just by living there. I thought I read something about them moving in an article somewhere. If you google you can find a good archive of screen caps of Reds flat, but I can't remember the site. It's quite detailed.

Eastcoast · 3/02/2017 9:53 pm

lara1 wrote:
A couple of people have mentioned that the flat looks different. I was thinking that as well. I think its the same flat, but the furniture is arranged slightly differently and maybe the stuff on the shelves.
Also, I had the idea that the photos and pictures over the desk, against the back brick wall, had been re-arranged. I seem to remember the St. Nicholas icon being more to the left on that wall.

Will have to look at it all more closely!

I also saw that the flat was different. There were more pics on the walls from what I could see. There was a navy picture that caught my eye but I could not blow it up too well, it was blurry.

Tuxie400 · 3/03/2017 10:38 pm

I had another thought on the amnesia. If someone knew the snake toxin would likely cause amnesia, this could be payback for Red having Lizzy's memories wiped. He's feeling how she felt when she couldn't remember her life. I think that was probably very scary for a little kid.

I love amnesia-related stories. That's one of my favorite themes in books and film. Maybe that's why I loved this episode so much.

Honey West · 3/03/2017 11:10 pm

Tuxie400 wrote:
lara1 - I still think the inhaler was used to prominently not to have been involved in the poisoning somehow. In the front, the plague was spread using a spray atomizer. In Karakurt, Andropov and Liz spread the virus by touch.

Tessa, after seeing the men in plaid in the fire memories, she went back and rewatched the first two seasons looking for plaid. Every time Tom was doing something deceitful in Season 1, he was wearing a plaid shirt. And she found many other scenes where people wearing plaid were doing some deceitful or something was not as it seemed. I can't remember all the examples.

Wasn't there a movie called "Dead Men Wear Plaid"?

Tuxie400 · 3/03/2017 11:19 pm

Yes, there was a comedy take-off on the original called Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid with Steve Martin. My husband owns a VHS tape of it. LOL

Last edited by Tuxie400 (3/04/2017 11:25 am)

Tuxie400 · 3/03/2017 11:33 pm

Here's some stuff about plaid as a symbol.

This is from the blog of someone who writes about fashion, Jennifer Liu.

Plaid, the meaning of the word itself as well as the use, has evolved dramatically since the 18th century. Originating from Celtic culture, plaid was a cloth with a particular weave that was used as clothing, rugs, and blankets. Different patterns were associated with different clans and plaid clothing was generally used as some sort of uniform and the style of that weave became a symbol of Scotland. Transcending from cloth that holds a strong national pride, plaid also began to show up as a part of punk fashion, representing rebellion in the British Isles during the 1970s. The symbolic meaning of plaid changed from one of authority to one of rebellion and opposition against the ruling class. The definition of the word has also changed from a type of weave to more superficial identifier, a pattern. Plaid had already shifted to becoming an important part of women’s fashion when the punk movement utilized it in the 70s, but recently, mainly in the past 10 years, ladies plaid shirts have become more and more popular. Plaid, by modern definition, is used as a pattern on almost all types of clothing: shirts, pants, pajamas, jackets, etc.=smallPlaid has moved through many cultures and subcultures throughout history- from the earliest Celtic culture, to the punk movement in the 70s, to the grunge movement in the 90s, and most recently heavily utilized in the hipster subculture today- that it holds a variety of differing symbolic meanings. It refers to power fashion when it was used as an identifier of authority, to fashion and gender identity when it became popular for both men and women, and to the opposition of fashion as well as subcultural identity when wore by groups as a symbol of rebellion against authority.

And in Dream Symbolism:
To dream that you are wearing plaid suggests that some of your conservative views are in conflict with your liberal and wild side.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (3/04/2017 11:26 am)

Honey West · 3/03/2017 11:40 pm

I found the link to the photos of Red's flat from "Leonard Caul". The link comes from a reddit discussion, but I am not sure who posted the photos, or I would give them a shout-out.

http://www.imagebam.com/gallery/y72lpzckkwaetrbl2zijcu78izxvxs9v

Anyway, the photo I compared was one from Apothecary with Red holding his phone with the Caul one showing Liz's graduation photo on top of the desk with the light fixture on the brick wall. Looks the same to me. Same picture frames, etc. I didn't count the bricks but I think its the same in both.

Honey West · 3/03/2017 11:41 pm

Tuxie400 wrote:
Yes, there was a movie called that with Bill Murray. My husband owns a VHS tape of it. LOL

That was it! LOL!

lara1 · 3/04/2017 12:13 am

Thanks Honey West. I think the pictures above the desk are different. in the old photo the St. Nicholas icon is on the left, and it doesn't look like there are any other pictures around it. I'm fairly certain in the winter finale, the icon is further to the right on the wall, and there are other pictures surrounding it. have to look again!

Honey West · 3/04/2017 12:17 am

lara1 wrote:
Thanks Honey West. I think the pictures above the desk are different. in the old photo the St. Nicholas icon is on the left, and it doesn't look like there are any other pictures around it. I'm fairly certain in the winter finale, the icon is further to the right on the wall, and there are other pictures surrounding it. have to look again!

I will have a rewatch and freeze frame in a bit. Now that I found the Caul photos. It could be a matter of set dressing, something being moved. I don't imagine that the flat is a permanent set. In fact I think I read that only the post office is permanent.

Honey West · 3/04/2017 2:04 am

Okay, the flat is the same. The records have been rearranged as one might expect after two years - they were probably played. Items in the desk cubbyholes have also changed, as would be expected. Many things are the same. One of the desk photos is different, it's a man standing. The photos above the desk are the same, even the bricks are the same. The candlesticks are on the table. The same ceramic vase is on the sill where the cat appeared two years ago.

I did note that when Red left the triage cube, shaking the pill bottle, it was hard to see, but I am pretty sure he's also got the inhaler in his hand. The blu-ray will probably answer that for sure. (wink)

Honey West · 3/04/2017 3:44 am

I can't find it, lara1, but did you mention the American flag when they had the first long shot of the triage cube? It was off to the upper right.

Tatiana · 3/04/2017 11:40 am

I think the American flag was in the building of the triage cube (the boxing ring) It was in some of the previews,

Tatiana · 3/04/2017 11:59 am

Re: Plaid
May have been said already, but wasn't the man in the cafe in "Cape May" wearing a plaid shirt?

On the Scottish side of our family, each clan has their own tartan.

Just me adding some probably useless trivia to our conversation.
You all just blow me out of the water with your clever observations!!!

Tatiana · 3/04/2017 12:10 pm

Red's flat: thanks all for confirming the flat similarities. Aren't we lucky that Honey West has direct experience in filming to add her wisdom to our conversation? :-)

For some reason I think the more recent scenes in the apartment were shot with long shadows for effect. Did you see the shadows of the blinds across the walls? It had a more ominous feel to it, naturally.

"Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid" Ha! That's the first thing I thought of when you all brought it up. It was an amazing film, not so much for plot but for concept/production. It was all in black and white to imitate the Film Noir genre. They interwove original film of the 30's/40's into the 1982 movie with Steve Martin and Carl Reiner. The costume designer, Elizabeth Head, having designed so many of the costumes of the time, did so for the '82 production. She was a brilliant designer. Actually, she died prior to the opening of the film.

Once again, more irrelevant trivia from me, but interesting nonetheless ;-)
I had once dreamed of being a costume designer!

Tuxie400 · 3/04/2017 1:04 pm

Tatiana - Yes, the man who came into the diner and made the call at the pay phone in Cape May was wearing a plaid shirt, as were two of the men on fire night. Plaid shirts and jackets have made repeated appearance throughout BL.