And its interesting to me that while the phrase for Red in Seasons 1 and 2 was that he has to tell Liz "The truth", now it seems to be, in Season 4, to "let her go".

OK so I went back over the script for 4.15 and found some more clues to "ghosts" or "haunting" - as we have seen in at least several episodes since "Mato".  And I'm wondering whether some of what is said between Red and LouLou is echoing Red and Kaplan.  Here is what I found:

Panetti's lawyer about the $200k funds ttransfer that his accountant made:  Now my client did instruct Helen to make that phantom payment, but not for taking out a rival.  

Red to LouLou: I know this is... [ Clears throat ] ...an unusual, frightening predicament. But I assure you, I mean you no harm. 
Red: You saved my life, Lou Lou. Thank you.  LouLou:  Like I needed a dead body on my conscience. 
LouLou: You try to hide it, but you're scared. I wasn't just gonna leave you.  

Later, the FBI talking to the girlfriend of the guy who poisoned his wife, the accountant: You finally figured out that the only way that you'd ever be with him is over Helen's dead body.  

So here are some thoughts.  Are all of these references, and those like them  in previous episodes, signaling that Kaplan, the "ghost" that Red "can't see" (like in the song!), is behind the attack on Red, or is it instead signaling a tremendous guilt that Red is now feeling over Kaplan?  And that she will come back, but end up helping him?  Is that what will finally set both of them free?

I think the conversation with LouLou is perhaps telling:  that line about a dead body on one's conscience...and that is what is haunting REd, not Kaplan herself, .and does it reflect back the feelings that Red and Kaplan had for each other, and maybe still have.  And when LouLou says, "I wasn't just gonna leave you"....does that instead foreshadow that Kaplan will be back, to help Red, to help save him?, rather than she is the traitor behind it all....(and the "thank yous" from Red reminded me of how he thanked Kate several times in"Mato")

I don't know, when I read those lines outside of watching the episode, they really just  jumped out at me.  Maybe I just need some sleep now!  LOL  

Last edited by lara1 (3/01/2017 1:00 am)

Well, my take on Kate has always been that they saved her for a reason and that the reason was going to be that she would come back and redeem herself by helping or saving Red. Whether it would be enough for him to be able to trust her again, I don't know. Maybe not. Then they have come up with this storyline that seems to be pointing to Kate being behind all of this business, but I don't think that is in character for her. At least not as far as we have seen of her character. If she is capable of that then they haven't shown that side of her to us. If Kate's purpose was to take Red down, I believe she wouldn't go after his empire and then poison him. No more than I believe that Dembe did it. Either one of them would just shoot him and get it over with. Put him out of his misery. They know he's probably tortured enough by his own demons. If either of them are doing this, then they are being used by someone else, unwillingly or unknowingly. Another master strategist. All of this season one of the things that has been missing is Red-as-master-strategist. He hasn't been 10 steps ahead of everyone, with contingencies in place for anything he can foresee and plan for. He also hasn't had it out with Liz over her betrayal. And maybe that is what is really eating at him, it's something that hit him hard but is yet unresolved. I think we saw that when LouLou asked him if Elizabeth would miss him if he died and all he could say was "Maybe." I think he thought "maybe" she might be relieved in a way. He didn't say "yes", though, and after all they've been though together.

Very good, lara1 #207! I like your thinking on the possible parallels. I think what is happening is that there is another head of an organization similar to Red's who is building their empire up at the expense of Red because they have seen that he is vulnerable at the moment. So they are taking him apart while they are rising to maybe replace him or take his spot in the greater scheme of criminal empires. They seem to have come close already, attacking him financially, stealing his deals and then killing him. He was not meant to survive the poisoning. It was not meant as a warning. So is this part of the Map of Doom stuff? 2017? Take out a major player and destabilize the rest then swoop in to pick up the pieces?  Unless Kate or Dembe are criminal masterminds on Red's scale, it's not them. Somebody else is the Big Bad. They are just pawns in the giant chess game.

" If either of them are doing this, then they are being used by someone else, unwillingly or unknowingly. Another master strategist."

Excellent point.

Clearly Dembe and Mr. Kaplan are not part of the effort to take down Red. 

By the way, I created a topic for Season 1:Season 4 parallels. There are SO many! And they are so intriguing. I know at least for myself, I like to see them all together. So if you think of any, please put them under that header. 

I shared a blog which equated Anslo Garrick (shot in the face but survived) to Kate Kaplan (shot in the face but survived); a mirror image I had not thought of. Very interesting!

 

Tuxie - feel free to add or not. I just thought it would be nice to have them in one place,

Tuxie400 - getting back to the stuff we were discussing in #181 and 182 about your theory -

I once again can't see the comments on the Blacklist Exposed Facebook page, but I was able to access your theory there by accessing the photo of Elise/janet that accompanied your post.  Enjoyed reading it again and the responses to it as well.

One person (I forget who) mentioned that the story that Red tells Liz during the harbormaster arc, about supporting someone financially out of, essentially, guilt, which he felt never works in the end.  At the time I think most thought he was talking about Liz.  But what if he wasn't?  And maybe he was talking about Jennifer? Come to think of it, he is supporting a number of families, including that of Newton Phillips and most recently, Stratos.  

Now I am thinking that if Jennifer wasn't his own daughter but he caused her (and Naomi) a lot of grief over what happened, he may have done that - supported Jennifer until she became an adult.  Moreso if he was to blame (rightly or wrongly) for the death of her own father.  Maybe not, but its an interesting angle.

Separately, someone commented on Red's right lung.  I'd forgotten about that, and any respiratory issues would be compounded by the damage done when he was shot (did Nik ever dig out the entire bullet or just fix it so that it could not detonate?  I can't remember exactly except the bullet caused unique challenges in the way it became imbedded).  

Anyway, we were recently discussing in another episode, similarities or mirror images I think and we were talking about something relating to Red's lungs and in particular how his right lung was affected, as in the same lung where he had been shot.  I can't for the life of me remembuer that reference but it might be relevant here.  I think it was a discussion we had just after, or just before, the episodes of the fall hiatus.  Anyone remotely remember what I am talking about?  LOL. so many intriguing and  rich theories and I can't remember one of my own!  LOL   

Last edited by lara1 (3/01/2017 3:17 pm)

lara1 wrote:

Oh, I answered my own question in #214.  I found it - it was my discussion in number 95 and 103 under the Isabella Stone episode discussion.  (helps to use the search functionality on the site, LOL!)

Anyway, I was commenting on how that last scene with Red and Stratos was so like the scene with kaplan and Red when he is shot in Leonard Caul - and Red tells Kaplan to leave and she reluctantly leaves him, with her gun, kisses him on the forehead.  Same thing with Stratos Red reluctantly leaves him with his (Red's) gun, hold his face, kisses his forehead.  So another mirror image.  And Stratos was shot in the right lung, the same as where Red was shot in Leonard Caul.

So my thought was that was perhaps telling us that Kaplan is not behind what's happening, bringing back that scene where she defends and shows love for Red in the same way.

Maybe that is tied in, in an indirect way, with Red's issues of not being able to breathe after being poisoned.  have to think about that some more and think about the episode, the inhaler, etc.

Maybe a link to the cat, Kaplan and the inhaler (again Kaplan helping or saving not harming Red)

 
I still think Red is allergic to cats. And they used that to trigger his breathing problems with the toxin cocktail. I think he had the inhaler at his flat because of allergies. He shook the bottle of pills as he left the triage cube. Why do that little thing unless it was to tell us that he only took the pills with him when he left.

What I'm getting at, and not obsessing over the cat, LOL, is that there are any number of people who might know Red was allergic to cats and that whoever targeted him with that poison did not need to have intimate knowledge of his medical history. So it opens up the suspect pool to include a larger number of people, not just say Dembe or Kate. People from pretty much any point in his life/career. I'd be willing to bet that Carla's interest in cats was probably the source for more than a few arguments between them. (whistling)

So I had another look at what Panetti says to Samar about the wire transfer that he had his accountant do, and this is what he and his lawyer say:

Now my client did instruct Helen to make that phantom payment, but not for taking out a rival. 
To avoid becoming a victim as well.
So, you see, I had no motive to hurt Helen.
Truth is, I liked her, and if you don't find the b*st*rd who did this to her, I will. 

So they are saying that they didn't wire funds to take out a rival - they did it to avoid becoming a victim as well.  And no motive to hurt the accountant.  And they'll find out who did if the FBI can't.

I think the clues are really stacking up that Kaplan is not behind the plot against Red.  No motive to hurt the acountant (i.e. Smoll) (or maybe not motive to hurt Red, for that matter).  And maybe, that she didn't wire the funds in order to take out Red.

Interesting.  I'm now thinking that it really can't be Kaplan.  The only question I still have is if someone may be forcing her hand. ("we did it to avoid becoming victtims as well")  But she's not doing it of free will.
 

Last edited by lara1 (3/01/2017 10:18 pm)

I really don't think its Dembe but at the same time his lack of communication with Red troubles me.
Maybe Red will get a midnight call from a payphone booth!  Because, to me, Dembe needs to explain himself in some way.  If Dembe is innocent, then leaving Red unprotected and to fight his unseen foe alone is risky.

Unless, Dembe has put 2 and 2 together and suspects Kaplan is alive, and is responsible, and is going to find her.  That, he would not tell Red, at least not until he found her and spoke to her.  But (IMO) he should at least make contact with Red.  So that part is starting to become puzzling to me.