Thanks Tatiana, I went to have a look at that after I saw your post just now.

That's interesting as I was thinking last night again about a Katarina connection somehow to current events....and here is Lotte, presumably in another flashback.  Hopefully we will get more info on she/Red this time...

So I am piecing together some thoughts on why Red is so afraid of Isabella (other than the obvious, bring down his empire and maybe Liz as collateral damage), if there is another connection.  I think we may have some clues in the episode.  But I'm going to wait until I re-watch it later, on a larger TV screen, in case I either missed something or misconstrued something the first go-round.  I always seem to miss some details on the first pass!  LOL.

Last edited by lara1 (2/11/2017 12:47 pm)

Tatiana wrote:

Lara - we were looking at snippets from more recent episodes. There's a thread of "loyalty" going through this season. Obviously with Red "killing" his "disloyal" associate, Kate, he is bitter and careless. He pursues Geoffrey's associate for the cobalt, injects false disloyalty, and managed to take down both men. He talks about his close associate who was disloyal to him and Dembe chastises him for it. It is a disservice to her memory, or something like that.

My husband pointed out something that maybe we just sensed but did not verbalize: Cape May Red reflects on how he kills people who deserve it, but he didn't kill a man who deserved it because he was the father to a child of a mother who was good (I'm totally winging it here). So if that's his moral code, then he broke his own moral code by 'killing' Kaplan. Kaplan only did exactly what he asked him to do. Protecting Liz. And protecting Red. 

I have to go back to get the exact dialogue, but you may remember better than I. The point is he's already broken his own code and he's falling into the abyss.

Thoughts?

I think it started with Red thinking Liz had died. She has been his reason for living probably since the day she was born. His current situation is based on everything he has done for her. But, I agree, he broke his own code when he shot Kate. She told him several times that what she did was to ultimately protect him, which was her job. She even told The Hunter that he was not only a threat to Liz and Agnes but to himself as well. It's hard to believe that Red was so blinded by his anger at Kate for what he saw as betrayal of his trust in her, that he could kill her. He must know that he crossed the line on that and that she was only doing what she thought was the best way to protect him, along with Liz and Agnes, of course. But Kate did it with eyes wide open about what her ultimate fate would be if and when she was caught. I think she hoped he might see her point of view, but she knew him well enough to know he was more than capable of cold-blooded murder, too. But I also think that's what is propelling him headlong towards that cliff. Massive guilt.

Interesting about the beekeepers in one of those photos. I haven't read the novel yet, but isn't it called The Beekeeper? I wonder if that's a tie-in with the book?

Honey West - yes, guilt.  I think that is why he is so short with Dembe whenever Dembe brings it up.    "Not now.  Not here", "Kate is irreplaceable" etc.  I think maybe Red doesn't want to be reminded of it.  He's regretting it and its like salt in his wounds.  Not saying Dembe should't raise it but that's why I think Red shuts him down.  IMO of course!!

Tatiana wrote:

It's Kate!!!! I could just kiss her, I'm so happy to actually see her 'alive' ha! Everyone is betting she'll be in episode 4.17 right after the Redemption break. (Those are production trucks behind her)

https://www.tumblr.com/reblog/157485715406/RusiyQcB

Yeah, I saw that this morning!  Well, it would be crazy if they saved her to just let her disappear into the safety of anonymity. She won't be able to stay away for long. Also, when I was looking at the Apothecary photos and saw one of Red's mobile medical rooms I kept thinking I wonder who is responding to *77 these days? Then this morning I started wondering what might have happened to Kate's cell phone? If Red made her leave it in the car, we didn't see that. What if she still had it when she was shot? Red didn't check her, he didn't even look back after she fell. Once she got back to civilization, if she still had it, would she have charged it and used it? Using it might alert someone that she was still alive so maybe not. But she could have been monitoring it. If that's the case then she would have seen a *77 go out, unless they changed the code. But why change it if Kate was dead? Hmmmm.

Wow! It looks like we're going to get a whole lot of back history via retrospective telling!

Tatiana - I just saw that addition of Young Kaplan on Alyblacklist.  I am so psyched for this episode! Who will play Young Red????!!!

Yes, this is very exciting  And I think Aly mentioned that the title of the episode has the name "Katheryn" or something like that....So is that Kate...

Also Little Nikos is supposed to be in that episode, I think I read somewhere.  So maybe we get the Annie story.  And it was Cerone who tweeted back in 4.08 that a major piece of the puzzle will fall into place later in the season.

I cannot wait!

Jason - could be anyone really.  A code name for Red, the "real" Red (don't think so though), maybe Liz's real father, could just be an ancillary character.

Roll on April!

Last edited by lara1 (2/25/2017 2:13 pm)

lara1 - When I saw Jason on the cast list, I thought of our Jason Bourne type theory about Red's memories of the fire being blocked or lost. Maybe Jason is the young Red.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (2/25/2017 3:34 pm)

Tuxie400 - very exciting!  So Annie seems to be an adult around the same age as the other characters at the time.

Still thinking about Jason - options are young Red, young Sam, someone related to Kirk, someone connected to Annie, none of the above!  LOL

No matter who would play young Raymond Reddington, it wouldn't live up to Spader's portrayal of Red. I think playing that role would be a daunting task.