Colleen wrote:

Honey West wrote:

The scotch was in the Bethesda flat. Who all has access to the flat? How does the scotch get there? Is it delivered or does Red or Dembe pop down to the local liquor store and pick it up? How long had that bottle been there? It was almost empty. It probably didn't arrive containing the poison. Or if it did was the poison a cumulative effect, building up slowly over time to a lethal point? Maybe it's been affecting Red for some time? He hasn't seemed quite "right" for awhile. Perhaps it prompted his little chat with Magnussen about feeling death stalking him?

 (cwy)

Excellent point about the Scotch bottle being almost empty and the possibility of Red being slowly poisoned over time!  Of course Red can be a thirsty fellow - remember when he and Berlin split a bottle of Vodka?  But I think you're really on to something with the Scotch bottle.

Someone mentioned on our site that poisoning Red seemed especially cruel, to prolong the suffering.  I wonder if framing Dembe and Marvin Gerard was an attempt to do the same.  Psychologically torture Red by making it seem like his most beloved are betraying him.  Anslo (and therefore the Cabal) and Kirk "only" physically tortured Red.  I think the only Big Bad who psychologically hurt Red was Berlin, by hurting his ex-wife.  This person is either a true sadist or someone who really wants to deeply hurt Red both professionally and personally.
 

 
Upon review the bottle was half empty (or full if you're an optimist). But still, was the poison in the bottle or the glass. Probably the bottle. Totally agree about the psychological torture of Red. I brought that up earlier about killing him slowly so he would know it's happening rather than just shooting him. Taking away his closest allies would also be torture. So why are they leaving Liz alone? If it was personal they'd go after her, so I am leaning towards it being business or one of the Cabal/government entities. Or somehow related to Katarina, whether she's alive or dead, it could be someone avenging her who holds Red responsible. Besides Dom. He's bitter but for some reason tolerates Red, and I think it's because of Reds relationship to Liz. Dom can't kill her father, so Red has that father immunity like Tom has.

And I still don't think it's Kate. When she told MM about her "employer. She sounded pretty matter of fact, not angry, or vengeful. Red did what he had to do after she forced him to have to do it. They do have unwritten rules in their line of work and she broke them. Plus he was extremely angry and shaken by the whole thing. She didn't seem to hold it against him. The only thing I can think of is that someone picked her up that was alerted to her presence. Maybe MM just happened to be squatting near that suspicious one acre parcel because someone knew something about it and he was assigned to watch it just in case anything useful came from it. The Red/Kate thing would have been like striking gold and provided a unique opportunity to go after him. If they have Kate then they know things that she knew about Red and I hate to say it, but she may not have willingly helped the,m, if that,s the case. Anyway, just some random thoughts. And eeewww, that Asa was a super creep! Loved Jodi Walkers recap on EW this week.

Last edited by Honey West (2/24/2017 4:20 pm)

I have an idea.  I think we are on the right track that whoever is behind this, wants to hurt Red emotionally, psychologically as well as physically, make hims suffer, slowly.  Start small, and build.  

What if the person behind this wants Red to think its Dembe - and Red to survive - track down Dembe and kill him.  Then, find out it was not Dembe.  That would totally and utterly destroy Red.

So that -

-start small, scupper a business deal, tie up his funds, kill associates
-gradually attack those closer to him
-Mess  with his head big time about who paid for the hit on Small, etc 
-Make Red think he was poisoned, and by Dembe
(I agree with those that think the doctor is suspect - reminded me of Liz's "fake" injuries in the fake hospital; and someone mentioned the drugs that made Cooper think he was sick - )
Somehow something was administered to Red to get him feeling sick, the doctor administers that inhaler thing that Red is clinging to like a life preserver, which actually induces the poisoning symptoms
Was there even poison in the Scotch?  it has not been tested.  Maybe just made to look like it was in the Scotch?
-And, get into the flat to plant a bug, to find out about the dinner.  Marvin's apt could also have been bugged.
IN any event, somehow stage it so that it looks like Dembe, resulting in a showdown between Red and Dembe where Red kills him, then Red finds out Dembe was innocent all along.....

And I still think the cat was a big clue - wasn't it the first thing we saw when the episode started? even before we saw Dembe and Red?  hmmm

Honey West - I looked up the Dennis Quaid version of D.O.A. I'm sure I saw it years ago since I was a huge fan of Quaid and Meg Ryan, but don't remember it very well. It's interesting since we've been discussing the relevance of 36 and clocks in The Blacklist that 36 hours is how long the Quaid character was given to live, and the movie poster was him in front of a huge clock face.

Colleen - I really like your second option that incorporates the memory loss. I can see Red cooking up this scheme with Dembe. After all, Dembe didn't leave Red at the mobile E.R. until he knew he was stable.The only way I see Dembe leaving him is if they already had a plan. Amnesia sure complicates things, doesn't it?

Colleen wrote:

Tuxie400 - that's so cool about DOA, 36 Hours, and TBL connections. Forget about doing a movie marathon night - we need the next 8 weeks to watch everything before the next new episode :-)

Lara1 - neat theory about Red killing an innocent Dembe. That would be sadistic!

Was out with friends for a couple hours tonight and the entire time kept wondering how could Dembe attempt to kill Red and still be innocent. Seems paradoxical, like Red being Elizabeth's father and not her father at the same time. I came up with two possibilities for Dembe - which means I was probably boring company tonight because the puzzle took priority over socializing.

Anyway, here they are: Dembe was approached/threatened by someone about poisoning Red, and decided to play along to find out who the culprit is. He believed that the mobile ER and the Task Force would keep Red alive. I'm not crazy for this theory because it's too risky for Red but it did get me to thinking about a second theory that incorporates Red's memory loss. What if Dembe was approached/threatened about killing Red. Unlike Newton Phillips back in Anslo, Dembe tells Red all about it. They cook up a scheme to have Red actually be poisoned, but had enough information about the Apothecary - and the mobile ER - to ensure that Red would likely be ok. This would have been Red's idea because Dembe wouldn't have liked it one bit, too risky for Red. Then Dembe would go on the run to find the Big Bad. Red would eventually join up with Dembe to take down Big Bad together. Problem is, Dembe and Red didn't count on Red having memory loss as a side effect of the poison. Or they didn't expect the poison to be so potent. So Dembe is off doing what Red told him to do, unaware that Red doesn't remember their plans. Red thinks he's been betrayed by Dembe but really he doesn't remember the scheme they cooked up together to catch the Big Bad.

How ironic would it be if this turned out to be true - Red thinks Dembe betrayed him when Dembe is the most loyal of everyone. When Dembe finds out that Red believes he was betrayed, Dembe may be crushed that Red lost faith in him. "How could you even think I would hurt you?!"

Red loses no matter what - if Dembe is guilty, Red is crushed. If Dembe is innocent and Red believes him guilty, Dembe will be crushed, which ultimately will crush Red. All this before the potential of Red killing an innocent Dembe and living with the guilt for the rest of his life.

All crappy options for Red and Dembe :-(

I like that second idea, Colleen. Of the two I think it would be the most likely. And as you said, Red loses either way and whoever is behind this gets their revenge. It could be anyone, don't forget Red has said he can't count the number of people who want him dead.

lara1 wrote:

I have an idea.  I think we are on the right track that whoever is behind this, wants to hurt Red emotionally, psychologically as well as physically, make hims suffer, slowly.  Start small, and build.  

What if the person behind this wants Red to think its Dembe - and Red to survive - track down Dembe and kill him.  Then, find out it was not Dembe.  That would totally and utterly destroy Red.

So that -

-start small, scupper a business deal, tie up his funds, kill associates
-gradually attack those closer to him
-Mess  with his head big time about who paid for the hit on Small, etc 
-Make Red think he was poisoned, and by Dembe
(I agree with those that think the doctor is suspect - reminded me of Liz's "fake" injuries in the fake hospital; and someone mentioned the drugs that made Cooper think he was sick - )
Somehow something was administered to Red to get him feeling sick, the doctor administers that inhaler thing that Red is clinging to like a life preserver, which actually induces the poisoning symptoms
Was there even poison in the Scotch?  it has not been tested.  Maybe just made to look like it was in the Scotch?
-And, get into the flat to plant a bug, to find out about the dinner.  Marvin's apt could also have been bugged.
IN any event, somehow stage it so that it looks like Dembe, resulting in a showdown between Red and Dembe where Red kills him, then Red finds out Dembe was innocent all along.....

And I still think the cat was a big clue - wasn't it the first thing we saw when the episode started? even before we saw Dembe and Red?  hmmm

Yes, they need to test the scotch. I'd be surprised if they didn't do that. The poison wasn't poison, per se. It was a chemically engineered substance that targeted a specific person's unique body chemistry. It incorporated red-headed krait snake venom, but that was used mainly to affect the person's respiratory system as many snake venoms do. They did a pretty good job showing us Red's resulting vision problems from the venom, too. I did some research and the neurotoxins in the snake venom can cause memory loss.

Honey West wrote:

Yes, they need to test the scotch. I'd be surprised if they didn't do that. The poison wasn't poison, per se. It was a chemically engineered substance that targeted a specific person's unique body chemistry. It incorporated red-headed krait snake venom, but that was used mainly to affect the person's respiratory system as many snake venoms do. They did a pretty good job showing us Red's resulting vision problems from the venom, too. I did some research and the neurotoxins in the snake venom can cause memory loss.

It really was the red-headed snake? Those writers must have so much fun!
I liked the special effects they used for Red's vision problems. Except at first I got anxious that our TV was acting up! lol
 

I re-watched part of the episode tonight.  So the ICU doctor didn't give Red the inhaler, best I could see.
Lulu gave it to him.  I wondered for a moment if she was in on it, and gave him something while he was out unconscious, but she seemed very genuine in her help for him.  I do have a question though:  if he passed out cold, how did she get him back to the house?  He must have come to and she helped him to the bed.

I still think Dembe was set up with the poison.  He poured the scotch but I don't think he knew.  

Here is another clue, but not sure I know what it means.  The scotch and glass are kept on a small table which is prominently under a lamp that has one of the old, antique looking amber lampshades (that I am always fond of pointing out whenever I see one!).  They appear throughout the series, mainly where Red is, but Dom had one or two of them, and I saw them somewhere else (I think Kirk had them) but can't remember exactly.  I wonder if its a symbol connecting those who have them.  My guess would be Katarina, given Red, Dom and Kirk had these lampshades.

I also think the cat means that someone else was in the apt.  Who?  Maybe K.  It might be her apt and lampshade, LOL  Someone else on another thread, I can't recall where, pointed out that so far this season, we have not had a major blacklister show up yet.  So a big bad would be that.

Whoever is after Red, its someone who wants to really scare him (they've succeeded) and torture him through psychological and emotional stress and pain.  Perhaps pay back for some similar type of pain they felt Red resposible for?
 

Last edited by lara1 (2/24/2017 10:57 pm)

Patter - poor you missing the first 15 minutes last night!  I would have gone insane!  LOL .  sounds like you had a chance to catch up today, that is good.

Colleen - interesting thoughts.  WE all collectively come up with such good ideas!  Its possible - Red doesn't remember anything, people have had to fill him in on everything, so other things could have happened that he   doesn't know about.  

That scene in the restaurant where they are all playing "Cluedo", reminded me of the old film about one of Agatha Christie's stories - 10 people are invited to dinner and a weekend at a house and they are locked in, and one by one they are being killed off.  They gather to try to figure out what is happening and why and who among them might be the killer.....

I don't know if this represents concrete thinking or this is an example of adherence to the principle of Occam's Razor, but my wife feels there is a simple optimistic interpretation for this episode's first image  -  the cat.

"Cats have nine lives......"