I have felt for some time that Red is either a long term undercover operative or that he is some sort of operative that is not necessarily undercover in that how he operates, as a criminal enterprise, is just what he is and does. But that his "job" is to maintain a global balance of power by manipulating things behind the scenes. Sort of like the Cabal is the shadow government branch of whatever this global thing is. Only Red's group makes sure the other "branches" stay in line. Getting a place at the table with the Cabal turned what had been a deadly foe into something he can manage. He neutralized their threat. I wonder if that means that he has taken out the Cabal and their affiliates on the Map of Doom? But that still leaves a lot of work with the other things on that map.

Eastcoast #21 - that is really interesting!  And that the same side matches the discussion at the doctors.

Honey West #22 - the map of doom confuses me as they never went back to it.  Last time we heard, sometime in Season 3 before Liz "died" was that Red mentioned they still had a lot of work to do.  Liz seemed to think that wasn't her battle and Red kind of admonished her while saying that it still was "his" concern.

So he has a seat at the Cabal table, which means they are no longer after him, and he has benefited in the process (his recent deal to them on the patents for example).  So they are no longer a threat per se, but what are Red's further plans, does he still intend to bring them down etc.  Or does he feel he can now keep an eye on their activities and that is it for now?  And was 2017 completely thwarted when he killed the Director - it was never entirely clear to me whether that was a plan the Director dreamed up and got the others to agree to, hence the plan died with him, or whether it was an overall plan of the Cabal, which he (the Director) was leading and managing.  And yes, there were enemies of the Cabal on that map as I recall.  I need to watch it again, for what the colors were - red, green, blue perhaps (that blue color, "cobalt" keeps coming up in various ways recently).

anyway just some musings on a cold, grey winter day.....with a cup of hot chocolote on the sofa!  

Last edited by lara1 (1/28/2017 4:55 pm)

Thanks for the link Lara1 - I completely missed that the Navy had Red in custody.  This is why I love reading everyone else's observations and theories :-)

The only Navy connection I noticed is that Red's jet has the Navy colors - blue and yellow. Actually the Navy's colors are blue and gold, but it's close enough for me ;-)

Last edited by Colleen (1/29/2017 8:12 pm)

Hello to All – am finally caught up with reading TBL-related books so will finally start working on summaries of them:  First Salvo (its connection to TBL is explained below), The King in Yellow (Liz reads this book in one of the comics), Krampus (the whole Christmas theme, plus Red recounts dressing up as Krampus in a comic), The Beekeeper (the first TBL novel).  Not all of the books fit into the Imposter Theory thread (Krampus will end up in the St. Nick thread, for example).

First Salvo, a 1985 book written by Charles D. Taylor, fits perfectly with the Imposter Red theory.  The link between the First Salvo and TBL is the book’s character Henry Cobb.  In TBL comic book #7 Red and Liz crash a Naval masquerade ball on Christmas Eve.  Red is dressed as a naval officer and wearing the name tag Henry Cobb.

The back cover of First Salvo says “A tragedy in Long Island Sound. A collision in the Sea of Japan. The Soviets are up to something, and the President announces what it is at a top secret, brass-only briefing.  The next war will begin at sea.  In five days. Unless Rear Admiral David Pratt and a hand-picked fleet of mavericks can strike the Russian bear when he’s still in his den, in the toughest assignment since fighting men first went to sea…”  Ultimately the book was about preventing a nuclear war during a time when the Cold War was still a reality.

One of the mavericks is named Henry Cobb and he is described, “He had always been an enigma, though he had eased his way into their hearts. He frequently disappeared underground, and when he surfaced, this group seemed to be the only people he ever needed, and they tactfully never asked for details.  He was the only one who acted totally independent, but he needed them as much as they needed each other.”

“Years back, he had been part of Navy Intelligence, but it simply didn’t work.  Hank was too sophisticated for it. But even that wasn’t quite the word Pratt really wanted when he tried to explain Henry to the President.  Afterward, Hank had been transferred to Delta Group, and that had been a failure too.  The group had been a force of men, while Cobb was much too independent – a one-man force.
Then the CIA heard about him and a deal was made.  Overnight he was a civilian.  Since Cobb was a linguist and Russian was his specialty, he had appealed to the CIA.  And he was a man who could appear in just about any location at any time, getting there totally on his own, with no help from the desk, and pass himself off as a native.  He was so successful in some of his more unsavory works, in fact, that he was discharged from the CIA.  It would not do to have a man like Cobb traced back to them.  And he liked that.  The idea of being an independent operative appealed to him.  Though there were rumors that Cobb was for hire to anyone who could pay the price, Dave Pratt knew this to be absolutely false.  In his own way, Cobb was a true patriot as long as he could work on his own terms.”

Sound like someone we know?  Similarities with Red also include a preference for Scotch, giving man hugs to people he cares about, and that organizations don’t have photos of him.

There are two other major similarities between Red and Henry Cobb.  While serving in Vietnam, Cobb fell in love with and married a Vietnamese girl.  When the Viet Cong found out, the girl was tortured and killed because she married an American.  Like Red, his wife was murdered.

The last similarity involves Henry Cobb’s mission, which was to sneak into Russia, blend in with migrants working on a vineyard, and quietly kidnap a Russian general.  One of the migrants – a female named Verra who is half his age – figures out that he is a plant.  Because she hates the general, she helps Henry with his mission.  Without her help, he couldn’t have succeeded.  And although Verra could clearly hold her own in tough situations, Henry was protective of her.  At the end of the book, Henry and Verra get married and lived happily ever after.  Except for getting married, Henry and Verra seem comparable to Red and Liz working together (although Verra never became angry with Henry or faked her own death to get him out of her life).

Guess that’s long enough for a book report…I really intended this to be a lot shorter!
 

Last edited by Colleen (2/02/2017 6:57 pm)

Colleen,  thanks so much for taking the time to write that all out for us.  Henry Cobb/First Salvo has some fascinating links esp given that Red took that name in the masquerade.  I never had or read the comic books, so it is really helpful to hear about this.  

I can't wait for your Krampus thoughts!  LOL I bet you can guess why!     I've been thinking about the concept generally since you first mentioned it.  I also think that its interesting, in the latest St. Nik connection, that the writer of The Forecaster described Emma as "the ghost of Christmas future".  There is definitely something up with all the Christmas/St.Nik imagery, and I think its more than that the fire occurred around Christmas time.  

Colleen - interesting.  Or was Red just going to the masquerade as that character, perhaps a favorite character of his? 

for some reason it reminds me of the party  scene from Boston Legal, where everyone was meant to appear in costume as someone they admired, and Alan Shore chose to go to the party dressed as Schmidt (the Candace Bergen character).  But I digress!

I guess it would have to be looked at in context of whatever else is going on in that scene in the comic book...but I think yes, it could go either way.  I would tend to go with it as a clue though (but then again I like the imposter theory!  ha)

Most interesting, Colleen, and much seems to fit about what we suspect about Red's past. And personality. Good job with the book report. The thing about Cobb being too radical even for the CIA made me think of Solomon.

lara1 wrote:

The interesting thing to me is that in the episode in Season 3 with the art and the painting (gosh I know it was the episode with all of the art, the artist creating real life murders as "art" etc but I can't recall the name of that episode!!) - we first see the painting as a sketch on a pad on an easel, much like we are seeing in that promo photo.  I know it can't be the same artist, but I wonder if there is a link back to that episode  somehow.  I guess we'll just have to wait and watch!

Ah, edited to add, it was "Drexel".  LOL my memory escapted me there for a moment!

 

Yeah, I was trying to decide if the artist was doing a study of Red or was painting the actual portrait. It's a watercolor, by the way. He's even holding a watercolor brush in one photo.
 

Great observation, HoneyWest! Portraits are always done in oils/acrylic, never watercolor.
Did any of you notice that the coloring was only one side of the face so far and that the sketched portion on the other side looks nothing like the first? It could be an optical illusion because line and color are expressed differently, but it looks like the eyes are quite different.

Honey West #35 - good points on the painting. To me, it looks like the other half isnt fully sketched in yet, which i think would be an unusual way to work?  Maybe.

Well i guess our Red has plenty of shades of grey!  And maybe we are only ever seeing half the person. Lol he probably just has a friend painting the portrait as a favor!