Thanks for starting the thread, Eastcoast!

It was an okay episode. A bit confusing, I agree with IW on that. But the main thing for me was the Dembe stuff. Okay, so Dembe admitted he gave Liz the letter. Red is angry.  I’m still not sure why it took Red two years to figure it out. Did he really just zone out with the girls and forget about it? And the letter got Liz killed because she hesitated and couldn’t shoot Red and that gave whatshisname time to get there and shoot her? That’s kind of a stretch. So whatshisname saw Liz and Dembe and figured out that she was going to meet up with Red later and where and what time and showed up to ambush her? Unless Dembe and Liz sat there and discussed the details out loud and were overheard, how did he figure that out? Did someone else tip him off? And Red is just mad because Dembe failed to see whatshisname and stop him? That tells me that it wasn’t him that took the pictures even though they were on his phone. So he probably wasn’t the one who overheard Liz and Dembe. So Dembe wouldn’t have been able to stop him. I don’t get why our normally 20 steps ahead of everyone Red can’t see this. Unless it’s part of whatever plan he has going to solve it. Guess we’ll just have to wait and see. Next week is the why Dembe joined the FBI story, I think.

Im getting a little tired of the drugs arc, too. I think Park is channeling our feelings these days!

Big Badd Bazzer wrote:

Honey West wrote:

Thanks for starting the thread, Eastcoast!

It was an okay episode. A bit confusing, I agree with IW on that. But the main thing for me was the Dembe stuff. Okay, so Dembe admitted he gave Liz the letter. Red is angry. I’m still not sure why it took Red two years to figure it out. Did he really just zone out with the girls and forget about it? And the letter got Liz killed because she hesitated and couldn’t shoot Red and that gave whatshisname time to get there and shoot her? That’s kind of a stretch. So whatshisname saw Liz and Dembe and figured out that she was going to meet up with Red later and where and what time and showed up to ambush her? Unless Dembe and Liz sat there and discussed the details out loud and were overheard, how did he figure that out? Did someone else tip him off? And Red is just mad because Dembe failed to see whatshisname and stop him? That tells me that it wasn’t him that took the pictures even though they were on his phone. So he probably wasn’t the one who overheard Liz and Dembe. So Dembe wouldn’t have been able to stop him. I don’t get why our normally 20 steps ahead of everyone Red can’t see this. Unless it’s part of whatever plan he has going to solve it. Guess we’ll just have to wait and see. Next week is the why Dembe joined the FBI story, I think.

Im getting a little tired of the drugs arc, too. I think Park is channeling our feelings these days!

Much agree w/ just about everything you say!

Immo - this episode was UNACCEPTABLE

Character development is virtually dormant; other than the insertion of Red's new (old) lover and his chief of security (who's the best of a bad lot of character development)

Snippets on the other characters:

Donald - quick fixes aren't always quick
Park - once angry, always angry!
Aram - about ready to yell "FIRE" in a crowded post office
Dembe - my sword of Damocles is getting tighter
Harold - Lucy, I'm Home!!!
Red - I couldn't shoot Dembe because I found out he's in future scripts!
Big Bad Bazzer - "When does Bull start?"

Last nite's ep might be the worst of the entire parafin of TBL's candle.
 

You said it, Triple B!

Basically my takeaway has been that because Liz hesitated she was shot and killed and that seems to be what Red is blaming Dembe for, because he didn't pick up on whatshisname being at the restaurant (neither did Liz for that matter). And the person who took the photo just happened to shoot the actual letter exchange. Didn't Red make the arrangements with Liz himself earlier? The only way whatshisname could have figured out where to be was if he had followed Liz from her meeting with Dembe. And he could have shot her any time. I am sure he wanted to kill her in front of Red, but how could he be sure that's where she was going? And with their Spidey senses how could both of them have missed seeing him taking pictures of them? Since they were being sneaky anyway and hoping Red wouldn't catch them I'm sure they scoped out the place before they sat down. Whatshisname must have been shadowing Liz 24/7 and just waiting until she met up with Reddington. So how did she never see him? Okay I get that they needed to kill her off in dramatic fashion so Megan Boone could exit the series, but still...

IowaWatcher wrote:

I'm wondering if the writer(s) are doing "revisionist history," again. I agree with both of you: those elements aren't making sense, especially in terms of what has already been established about the characters. Again, major continuity problems? Maybe this next episode will clear up some items?

 

Once you've disfigured continuity there's little that can be done about it. 
Pity a bell doesn't chime when you seek to unring it . . > ! ! !

BBB -- I think this episode was the second worst. The worst award for me goes to that episode where Red was rolling around in that nasty trailer trying to pick the handcuffs. The whole episode was a hot mess.

Eastcoast -- yikes! Better luck next week. Glad you had cupcakes and gourmet rice pudding!

I was thinking earlier about how this show could be fixed. Overall, they need a successful author of spy novels/thrillers to plot the show's arcs and pen some of the episodes, and then they need a fan/editor to keep an eye on continuity. Pay this person to do only that! This is a complex series. Don't give it the "Game of Thrones Finale" treatment. Fans deserve a lot better.

Red: Give him his intelligence and wit back! The out-of-control, weak character who needs a shaman isn't working. Give him a lover like Tom's mother. In fact, maybe even bring her back.

Dembe: Enough with the FBI gig. That's not working.

Park: Go bye-bye soon. Replace her with someone who is strong enough to stand up to Red and is also a little weird around the edges.

Aram: do more with his character but no more lovers like the last weirdo.

Donald & Harold: change their story lines. No more drugs or chasing a murderer

Bring in a female lead worthy of Spader! Maybe this is Tom Bond's half sister from Russia or something.

Drop that whole letter thing and make peace between Dembe and Red. If kept, make sure that it makes more sense in the established context of the show. This is why they need a successful author of spy novels to either write or at least consult. That whole element is gone right now.

I think the show truly went off the rails about the time Liz was holding Tom on the boat. It never fully recovered.

Just random thoughts on a snowy Saturday. I'm feeling a little disappointed. The pilot had so much promise!

 

Last edited by IowaWatcher (1/15/2022 3:15 pm)

Let the spankings continue until the writing arcs improve!
 
Indeed, the collective Spidey and security skills of Lizzy, Dembe, Red failed miserably re Manet (Klimt? Picasso? van Gogh? – whatever his name).
 
On the bright side: had Dembe not given Lizzy the letter she would have achieved the singular notoriety of fatally shooting both her biological father and mother (each named Raymond Reddington).
 
Also amusing has been Ressler’s series evolutions of gingered wigs and facial hair.
 
I like the idea of Red teaming up with Agnes’ other granny – Scotty Hargrave.
 
When BBB said “Bunbury” I instantly dunked my Proust Madelaine. As a confirmed Bunburist I shoulda married my ward Cecily instead of my calculating cousin Gwendolyn – she who evolves into a full gorgon like her mother.