The Blacklist Refugees » Winter Hiatus 2019/20

Eastcoast · 12/18/2019 12:45 am

Time for yet another discussion board..

A few things I've been wondering. What's new?

I did another rewatch. I know that K arranged for her own fake hit, but how did she Know Red would be there? Right then. And I did not see anything that looked like a vest under her clothes.

There were only 2 guys, I think Red and Dembe could have taken them out. I didn't see any effort from Dembe.

I was wondering, has anyone else come up with a reason that Ressler would know how that was KR on that tape they played? I was thinking that the man said it was her really doesn't hold up.

Honey West · 12/18/2019 5:07 am

Dembe specifically talked Red out of going to help Katarina. It made me wonder if he knew something.

Good questions about how did she know Red would be there. Maybe she only signaled the hit after she trolled past Red and Dembe in the car. Had it prepared. I’m sure she figured it was only a matter of time before Red found Ilya, and her.

Eastcoast · 12/18/2019 9:09 am

Maybe Dembe is just tired of the games and let the chips fall.

Coleen, are you out there? Any new thoughts?

Tuxie400 · 12/18/2019 10:13 am

Everything about Katarina's fake death was contrived. How did she know Red would be waiting outside the apartment? When did she put the blood packs on? She must have had a GPS on her person that let the brothers find her location. And it was curioius that Dembe stopped Red from helping. We've seen Red and Dembe together take down dozens of men before. All I can think of is that Dembe knrew Red's physical condition was not up to the task.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (12/18/2019 10:15 am)

Eastcoast · 12/19/2019 1:33 am

His physical condition could have something to do with it. I didn't consider that. The whole thing was weird.

The writers probably think some of us out here are to technical. I don't think so. When you write a mystery and drag it out for 7 years, you have to expect people to be dissecting it for clues.

😴

Honey West · 12/19/2019 11:48 am

Good point about Red's condition, Tuxie400. We were also reminded by his reaction to Agent Park sitting next to him in the backseat of his car. Like he didn't remember her being there.

Eastcoast · 12/19/2019 1:43 pm

I've been thinking about Edgar Legate. He was created by Red as an Assassin who does not exist. Is it possible he Created Neville Townsend?
Just a thought, don't know how that would all work. But I love throwing things out there to think about.

KathyN · 12/20/2019 1:48 am

Good question about Dembe. And I agree with all your points/questions Tuxie. The whole thing was contrived. How did she know Red was going to be there at that exact moment. Remember Birdy told her the brothers were in town and they were running out of time. So was Dembe in on it? I find that hard to believe but he led Red there and he made him stay in the car. I prefer to think rather than Dembe being complicit with Katarina that it was just bad writing. But I see the possibility there.

One thing I forgot to point out is that last scene where Katarina calls Liz and tells her she's going to be gone for a while and they show her walking through the crowd. I thought it was very reminiscent of the scene in the first Season when Red calls Liz from a pay phone and tells her he's going to be gone for a while and she asks him if he's her father. I think that was a deliberate throw back, but maybe not.

These days I prefer discussing the show with all of you to the actual show! That's pretty sad.

Tatiana · 12/20/2019 10:21 am

KathyN wrote:
One thing I forgot to point out is that last scene where Katarina calls Liz and tells her she's going to be gone for a while and they show her walking through the crowd. I thought it was very reminiscent of the scene in the first Season when Red calls Liz from a pay phone and tells her he's going to be gone for a while and she asks him if he's her father. I think that was a deliberate throw back, but maybe not.

My thoughts precisely. It was very reminiscent.

At one point I would have looked at both scenes side-by-side to "analyze" and extract the parallels, but that point has come and gone. I too feel dispassionate about the show. I'm just hoping they can go out wiht fireworks when they finally end it.

Tuxie400 · 12/20/2019 11:31 am

KathyN - I deifinitely think the ending with Katarina disappearing into the crowd was a deliberate callback to the Season 1 midseason finale with Red disappearing into the crowd. These showrunners love their parallels, and there were many in this episode. I used to find the parallels fascinating, and it was a game to find them all. Now they just seem tiresome.

It is sad when we like our discussion group more than the show itself. I can't believe I haven't rewatched any Season 7 episodes at all. I used to watch each episode a couple of times after it aired, as well as annual rewatches fo all the seasons.

Tuxie400 · 12/20/2019 1:02 pm

Eastcoast wrote:
I've been thinking about Edgar Legate. He was created by Red as an Assassin who does not exist. Is it possible he Created Neville Townsend?
Just a thought, don't know how that would all work. But I love throwing things out there to think about.

Interesting thought, Eastcoast. What would motivate him to put a bounty on Katarina's head?

Tatiana · 12/20/2019 2:26 pm

Tuxie400 wrote:
Interesting thought, Eastcoast. What would motivate him to put a bounty on Katarina's head?

To distract from himself if he were the real Katarina Rostova?
The closer people get to knowing his truth, his full truth, the more fiercely he protects it. Liz was asking too many questions and getting too close to his secret truth. Ilya Koslov is at the epicenter of his truth. What wouldn't Red do to protect it?
He would draw out someone that would be mistaken for the real Katarina Rostova and allow her to be killed.
He has risked everything and killed anyone in his path who might reveal his truth.
If Red is Katarina who "stepped into the shoes of Raymond Reddington" then this all makes sense.

Tuxie400 · 12/20/2019 3:54 pm

Tatiana - I guess if he were at the top of the Townsend Directive, he might find out if others were on the trail of Katarina - and specifically if they had located Liz or Dom in the pursuit. But my gut feeling is Red is not Nigel Townsend.

Eastcoast · 12/21/2019 12:33 pm

Tuxie, I don't feel down inside that is who he is. I do like throwing stuff out there since I suppose anything is possible.

My thought was that it was to make her go go away and stay away, because she us a danger to Liz. She has always seemed to me to be selfish. Very selfish. I think she loves her daughter, but not as much as herself. She is not a good mother in my opinion.

If they set up a fake KR to have her killed, that is selfish to me. There is nothing loving that comes to my mind.

Well, off to RL for a while.

Tuxie400 · 12/22/2019 1:34 pm

Eastcoast - I know what you mean about throwing stuff out there. Here's a weird theory I came up with early in Season 7. I've never mentioned it here, but I will now because the idea is gaining traction elsewhere. What if the Season 7 Katarina was the bio mother of Liz/Masha forced by higher-ups to give birth, but the Lotte/Katarina, a duplicate spy, raised Masha as her own? I always found Katarina's line in Requiem suspicious. She told Kate "In my job the only one I know I love is Masha." That seemed to equate Masha with being part of her job. This theory would support the ongoing themes of women being forced to bear children and adoptive parental love in the series. If true, this plot might have required the Lotte Katarina to show a false pregnancy. When the first fake pregnancy came up in The Harem, I thought it was homage to Bokenkamp;s Taking Lives movie. But then we got a second fake pregnancy last season with the drug mule. Cerone after Adrian Shaw Pt. 2 said to pay attention to Red's lines to Kirk about the people who raised Masha as being her father. That would apply to Lotte/Katarina too. When I first thought of this, I thought it would be far too complicated a plot. But the show has become some complicated now, who knows?

Eastcoast · 12/22/2019 6:26 pm

That is an interesting thought. When she said that, I did think it was odd. But I took it as she isn't emotionally attached to anyone. Being a Honey Pot, that would make sense. Would be difficult to get emotional when your getting around like that.
I always thought it was odd that Kirk only knew about Red and no one else.

I never saw taking lives.

Could you post what Cerone said, If you get a chance? Tricky they are!
I'm guessing that was on Twitter. I really need to get that. Lol. I say that on every break. Lol

Tuxie400 · 12/22/2019 7:20 pm

Eastcoast - I don't have the exact thing Cerone said. It was on Twitter.

Honey West · 12/22/2019 8:17 pm

I always thought the loving Masha line referred to her not being supposed to fall in love with her marks. She made a big mistake of falling in love with Raymond and it complicated her life terribly. She’s not going to make that mistake again and will forever love only Masha. Now, of course, we find that she remarried and was in love with her husband when he was murdered by Dom and Ilya. No wonder she is so p.o.'d at them! I wonder if she’s worried now that she’s reconnected with Masha that love will be her undoing once and for all.

Tuxie400 · 12/29/2019 11:52 am

Honey West wrote:
I always thought the loving Masha line referred to her not being supposed to fall in love with her marks. She made a big mistake of falling in love with Raymond and it complicated her life terribly. She’s not going to make that mistake again and will forever love only Masha. Now, of course, we find that she remarried and was in love with her husband when he was murdered by Dom and Ilya. No wonder she is so p.o.'d at them! I wonder if she’s worried now that she’s reconnected with Masha that love will be her undoing once and for all.

The line mostly is aimed at her marks. But from a writing standpoint, the line is a weird way to say it.

I take it from this post, you are taking this season's Katarina as the original. I still believe she's Fakerina. I did rewatch the ending clip where blonde Kat is on the phone with Liz. She does seem to be crying at the end of the call. But I question whether those tears are because of her love for Liz. I view them as a red herring. Could they be tears of relief following a highly emotional day? Or tears of joy because she thinks Liz is going to help her get what she wants.

Honey West · 12/31/2019 6:39 pm

Tuxie400 wrote:
Honey West wrote:
I always thought the loving Masha line referred to her not being supposed to fall in love with her marks. She made a big mistake of falling in love with Raymond and it complicated her life terribly. She’s not going to make that mistake again and will forever love only Masha. Now, of course, we find that she remarried and was in love with her husband when he was murdered by Dom and Ilya. No wonder she is so p.o.'d at them! I wonder if she’s worried now that she’s reconnected with Masha that love will be her undoing once and for all.
The line mostly is aimed at her marks. But from a writing standpoint, the line is a weird way to say it.

I take it from this post, you are taking this season's Katarina as the original. I still believe she's Fakerina. I did rewatch the ending clip where blonde Kat is on the phone with Liz. She does seem to be crying at the end of the call. But I question whether those tears are because of her love for Liz. I view them as a red herring. Could they be tears of relief following a highly emotional day? Or tears of joy because she thinks Liz is going to help her get what she wants.

I am taking her as being the real Katarina at this point. At least until I see overwhelmingly convincing evidence that she is not. But, as I have said before, I am along for the ride at this point. They have too many mystery threads with big gaps going at the same time to make me theorize anymore. At least for now.