The Blacklist Refugees » Season 6-7 Hiatus Links and Such

Tuxie400 · 6/10/2019 3:06 pm

Tatiana - Glad you like my latest wild theory!

Eastcoast · 6/12/2019 10:55 pm

Tuxie, They do like to stir the pot! Especially with all the Jon'speak!

  That would be a twist if she were a double for all these years. Did they mention that they have her DNA or are you thinking that they might have it?

When JB started taking about getting someone to play KR 30 years later and had discussed it with Robbins, I started to lean that it is probably her. He said that what we saw was more true than false.
So unless they tell us different, I think that Ilya became Red, but I am not saying he stayed Red.

When KR asked him why she would do all that, he said to protect her.

K, But there's still one thing that doesn't make any sense.
   Why would you do that?

I, To protect you.

K, They'll hunt you. You'll never be able to stop running.
   I, Isn't that what we've been doing? Running.
Besides, why do I have to keep reminding you? We pledged our lives.

I found it to be a bit of a parallel that KR asked Ilya why he would become Red, and that Liz asked him why he would stay Red.

Liz,
But what I don't understand is what happened after it worked.
I mean, you became Reddington, but then, you stayed Reddington.
And I don't understand why.

As far as the bench guy, I have to wait to see more about him. He does look like an older Ilya.
What I find interesting about these men, Red, Ilya, Kirk and Sam, is that they could all pass as brothers.
So I think I might have to wait till the new season starts to see what happens. I wish the guys had more time in the podcast so they could have asked about him too.

Last edited by Eastcoast (6/12/2019 10:57 pm)

KathyN · 6/13/2019 3:22 am

Here's my theory on FaKaterina. I agree she's been a double for all these years. For me, it ties back to episode 3 of The Blacklist Redemption (Independence, USA) with the spy camp where Russian doubles were groomed to walk into the lives of Americans. Whoever walked into Reddington's life after Ilya impersonated him came from that camp, and my theory right now is that the woman who we saw at the end of the last episode walked into Katarina's life as well - maybe to pose as her to the Cabal and get more information that the Russians couldn't get when the real Katarina went underground. They were prepped for these roles together and if they went through the program together they would used their 'fake' names when they addressed each other - something that would have been ingrained in them during the program. I think the Stranger was in on the program, whether or not he's Ilya (which I believe he is) and so was Dom. This has been my theory as to who Red is for awhile now and it still fits, and explains who FaKaterina is, so I'm sticking with it . FaKaterina knew FakeRed was coming, she had the needle and the van ready. Dembe wasn't with Red, he'd never have left himself exposed like that. This was a planned fake-out between both of them to get Red to a safe place where they could talk in case anyone was watching.

As for Bokencamp, didn't he push that Liz shot Tom during that season break, only to have him tied up in the boat a few episode into the next season? I think something similar is happening here. FaKaterina is fake, and she does not mean harm to Red. As to whether or not the real Katarina is alive somewhere, we probably won't find that out until the producers are told it's their last season, which could be a few years away.

Last edited by KathyN (6/13/2019 3:24 am)

Tuxie400 · 6/13/2019 10:33 pm

Eastcoast wrote:
Tuxie, They do like to stir the pot! Especially with all the Jon'speak!

That would be a twist if she were a double for all these years. Did they mention that they have her DNA or are you thinking that they might have it?

The DNA is just speculation on my part.

Tuxie400 · 6/13/2019 10:35 pm

KathyN - So we agree there is a Fakerina. I like your scenario, and that may be just what is happaning.

Eastcoast · 6/14/2019 12:31 am

KathyN, I have wondered about that ever since I saw that on there too. All those doubles living in those fake little towns.... Very weird!! I have also wondered if that is what Red was talking about when he said to Susan H. "There are limits, even for people like us. Especially for people like us."

Tuxie400 · 6/14/2019 1:34 pm

Eastcoast wrote:
KathyN, I have wondered about that ever since I saw that on there too. All those doubles living in those fake little towns.... Very weird!! I have also wondered if that is what Red was talking about when he said to Susan H. "There are limits, even for people like us. Especially for people like us."

That is an interesting quote to think about, Eastcoast!

KathyN · 6/14/2019 8:58 pm

I believe that Redemption episode was pivotal. When it first aired I thought it was a clever way for the producers to plant the idea of who Red was without doing it on the actual show, sort of a gift to the die-hards who watched Redemption too.   And when Tom first read the DNA results on the bones, it clicked for him. He didn't look at the lab report and get confused with how it could be Red's bones - no, it sparked an "of course, that's it!" reaction in him. As he was at the spy camp in Russia, and witnessed the program first hand. Anyway...since that episode aired I believed Red was a fake and a plant from the program. Actually, I used to think he was already being prepped to replace Red when the real Red died (I may have posted that here at one time) but I abandoned that theory after hearing the Ilya story, but now I'm thinking, why not? Ilya replaced Red to get the money, but whoever was running the Independence USA program found out Red was dead, Ilya was 'keeping him alive' by impersonating him, so why not put the double who was ready to go right out there to take over the fake-out. But they needed Katarina to make it work and she was on the run. No one knew where to find her. No problem, create a double of her too. Could this be the crime FakeRed did to Katarina that Liz may never forgive him for (what Dembe said to Red at the tree)?    Is this also what Dom was so pissed about and never forgave fakeRed for? Bringing Katarina 'back from the dead' via a double who worked for the Cabal but really was a Russian spy? Putting her real family's life in danger, keeping them separated and away from Masha?

Consider this: who returned to Naomi's house on the 1990 Christmas eve, and who left their car at the side of the road. Realred was long dead. It wasn't Illya because why would Ilya keep up the charade after stealing the money, especially knowing the Cabal wanted Reddington dead. They stole the money to go on the run, not stick around 10 months or so. So why not go back to being Ilya? The only answer that makes sense is the Russians wanted a fake red and a fake Katarina working with the Cabal and they planted them there.   Also pointing in this direction - Dec 1990, almost a year after the fire, Katarina has her phone conversation with Fitch to kill or ruin Red, the tape of which was played at the trial. How and why was she still plotting with Fitch a year after the fire, when she knew RealRed was dead, and when she supposedly was hiding out? And more importantly how could Raymond Reddington reveal the USS Gideon's location in March 1990 if he died in Feb 1990? There had to be a fake Red that the Cabal believed was the real Red. Someone was faking out the Cabal. Katarina wanted no part of them, Ilya only wanted the money and to keep Katarina safe.   So how did she go from fleeing everyone for her life to working with the Cabal again? She DIDN'T.   This has to point to both of them being planted fake Russian spies to fake-out the Cabal. (real Red, dead a year, real Katarina underground). When the Cabal told fakeKatarina to kill FakeRed, her partner Russian spy, he disappeared that Christmas eve and went underground to become the concierge of crime.

More to think about. Was the story FakeRed told of coming home on Christmas finding blood everywhere true? Naomi and Jennifer weren't hurt the night they found Red's car. So whose house did he go to? Did he abandon Red's car after going home to his real family? And if he was in a Russian spy program, would his real family even be in the USA?   Also who lived in the house he blew up? And was that Katarina with Liz in the bubble girl home movie or was it his real wife and daughter, the one whose height was marked on the walls of the blown up house? Why would he be so sentimental about those movies if the girl was Liz (and very much alive) and the woman was Katarina, who we're supposed to believe he knew was alive?

Meanwhile, if it's true that fakeRed is a Russian spy from the Independence USA program, there's a catch. A FakeRed master spy would have had no relation to real Red or Katarina and no affinity to Masha. Ilya may have sworn to protect her, but why would a Reddington russian spy impersonator care about Masha? And why would he have a relationship with Dom? Also the Kohler surgery hasn't happened as of Christmas 1990. So after the Finch/fake Katarina conversation, someone undergoes surgery to BECOME Red, a wanted man, only to remain underground and away from Russia and the Cabal both. What good is he to any of them? And why do it?    Does that leave room for Redarina? I think it does. And maybe FakeKatarina never went away, so real Katarina is FakeRed and FakeKatarina is shooting a needle in him/her on the streets of France.   (this is coming from someone who until a few episodes ago totally dismissed the Redarina theory... lol, never say never!)

KathyN · 6/14/2019 9:03 pm

I did a rough transcript of part of the Bokencamp interview on the podcast because I think it fits with what I just posted above.
~~~~
JB: The truth to the series lies not only within that night of the fire but also the window which we've started to color in quite a bit; what happened in the time after. Right? like the time after. One of the stories we told this season was Katarina walked into the water but what happened after. And she walked out of the water. and so there is room there, there are stories there that have not yet been told that obviously we're being very careful with how what those stories are and how quickly we tell them. But yeah there are some nuggets there that are yet to be revealed.

Q: Nuggets that would be in that missing time period from, we used to say 1990 to 1994 but now we can say october of 91 to 94. Is that 3 year window just because the FBI doesn't ask really good questions in Season 6?

JB; OK that's a cheap shop. 91. What's your date in 91?

Q - Kohler. The Kohler surgery happens in 91.

JB: yeah.

Q- So I guess that 3 year period just the FBI doesn't catch up to him, or is that 3 year period actually stuffs taking place and we should actually still think about that 3 year period as important to the mythology.

JB: It's, I gotta be careful, it's both Troy. The truth is on either side of that date. The truth of the show has its roots, it's not quite, how do I say it, it's not quite as simple as that. Those dates are benchmarks and believe me we went over them and over them. Sam Christopher who wrote episode 18, she's got, she's the one who holds the bible at the moment of all the dates and I, my God, we went over it so everything tracks. And the dates do work. I don't think it's so specific as when Red went missing to the Kohler date to when Red reemerges, as yeah, it's not about a date, I'll say that. Did I just spoil the whole show? I just gave it all away didn't I?

Honey West · 6/14/2019 10:10 pm

Good points KathyN. I like the way it seems to be fitting. I've always wondered about that Redemption episode, too.

Suppose, though, that the Katarina talking to Fitch is the real Katarina and not the fake one. Maybe she is trying to take out the Fake Red? Revenge, maybe?

KathyN · 6/14/2019 10:49 pm

Honey West wrote:
Suppose, though, that the Katarina talking to Fitch is the real Katarina and not the fake one. Maybe she is trying to take out the Fake Red? Revenge, maybe?

Could be! Do we have the correct date for Cape May? Maybe Cape May happened in Jan 1991. Maybe Katarina continued to work for the Russians after the fire, to infiltrate the Cabal and get the fulcrum, with the fake Red russian spy stepping in to play Reddington. (After all, the only one who knew where the fulcrum was in 1990 was Masha, as Real Red was dead). Maybe she approached Ilya after the Dec 1990 phone call with Fitch, and he had the Kohler surgery in 1991 and stole the bank account money. If so, your theory that she was seeking revenge on the Russian spy Redfake when she called Fitch fits. She let's fakeRed know he's a marked man, possibly even killing him, he deserts his car or is dead and it gets left at the side of the road. Either way he's done playing Red. Ilya then assumes Red's identity and steals the money for Katarina and then watches over Masha until present time. It's possible Katarina needed the first fake Red out of the way so Illya could step in, another reason for outing him to Fitch.

But let's say she approached Ilya right after Cape May and that Cape May happened shortly after the fire. That would put it around March 1990, which is the same time as "she" was framing a very dead Red for the sinking of the USS Gideon. If so, Katarina had to be a double because from Dom's story about Ilya, she wasn't working with the Russians or the Cabal after Cape May, as they both wanted her dead. So how could she be stealing Red's intel about the ship to frame him? And how was it Red's intel if he was dead? That points to two spies - a fake Katarina and a fake Red. And that explains a lot, except for our (spader) fake Red's interest in Liz and the surgery in 2001. which points to Redarina. It also leaves open why the Russian spy fake Katarina would 'out' Reddington to Fitch a year after the real Reddington was dead. What was she trying to set in motion with that phone call? EDITING: I just realized this may point to Redarina too. If Katarina wanted to assume Red's identity, she needed the fake Red out of the way! If she knew there was a fake Katarina still working with the Cabal, she, the real one, calls Fitch. What better way to break up the spy ring fakes than to let Fitch destroy Reddington's reputation and force him to go underground. She kills the Russian spy whose impersonating Red and becomes Red instead. And pisses off Fake Katarina, who is still around to this day.

Do we know for sure when Cape May happened and when Katarina walked into the water? I think we do - isn't that when Mr. Kaplan read the newspaper reports about it? was there a firm date for that occurrence? And do we know how soon after she approached Ilya? I feel these 3 dates are key: Cape May, the date she approached Ilya and the date he became Red. And of course the date of the surgery, and who underwent it. This whole time period is key accoding to Bokencamp so I think I need to get my dates straight. (any help appreciated!)

Last edited by KathyN (6/14/2019 10:59 pm)

KathyN · 6/15/2019 8:56 pm

Trying to tie down the time line and I ran into a major issue. I could use some help! Maybe this was discussed here before and it was before I was a member and missed the discussion.

The common consensus has been that Cape May happened shortly after the fire.

The manifest for the ferry that Liz found on Ressler's desk that she confronted him about was from 1991; this was the manifest he asked his contact for because Velov said he spotted Katarina at the ferry terminal. Katarina wasn't on the manifest but her mother was, and according to Dom, Katarina met her mother at the ferry to say goodbye before going underground after Cape May, after she walked back out of the water.

Here's my problem. While rewatching Requiem, I noticed the newspaper that Mr. Kaplan is reading in the bar while looking at the job ads for a morturary, and which has the article about Katarina disappearing after walking into the ocean at Cape May has car ads in it, and one of those was for a 2005 commercial vehicle. There is also an ad for a 2003 SUV, so there's more than one ad from post 1991. I found the screencap images and attached them below. Is this a goof or does this change the timeline?

Last edited by KathyN (6/15/2019 9:01 pm)

Eastcoast · 6/15/2019 9:18 pm

KathyN,

If you go to our History Board, we have a time-line you can use. I am getting to add some things to it soon.

We also had a lot of discussion on the episode with Kate and the dates. I think we had concluded they made a mistake??

Eastcoast · 6/15/2019 9:33 pm

KathyN, I just looked, and there is a comment starting in post # 209.

lara1 wrote: - when Kate is reading the paper in the bar, i froze the screen to see if i could see a date esp in the article about katarina. When Kate circles the mortuary ad, there are a bunch of ads for cars on the left hand side. They are for 2005, 2003 and 2001 model cars. That is impossible.

KathyN · 6/16/2019 3:08 am

Thanks Eascoast for the link to the discussion here. I guess I wasn't paying that close attention back when the episode aired, but this group didn't miss it at the time. It's really frustrating when they are careless with something like dates. Here we have Bokencamp giving an interview saying they have a bible of dates to make sure they all work and then you have a substantial goof with dates. So which is it? Are dates sacred or are they up for grabs depending on whether they're paying attention?

For instance: Did the fire happen in late 1989/early 1990? Because I think we can conclude (without the 2005 goof) when Cape May happened: around April 1991.   Katarina showed up at the ferry 2 weeks after she walked into the water, and the ferry manifest was from 1991. Liz referred to the Kohler surgery when talking to Dom and said it was 6 months after Cape May. That makes Cape May happening in April 1991.

So, if the fire happened in 1989, Cape May happened more than a year after Red died. Where was she for that year? Did she continue to work for the Russians and the Cabal after Red died? The info she gave Fitch about Red discovering her identity was in Dec 1990 - a few months before Cape May, but a year after the fire if it happened in Dec89/Jan 90. Did the Cabal not know the fulcrum was missing for a full year?   And Red was dead in Dec 1989/Jan 1990, how could "Red" give the Russians information about the USS Gideon. So is the fire date another goof and the production team and their bible don't have their years straight?

Here is the dialogue I'm using to support the dates from episodes that aired this year, I'm not sure who is speaking for all of it because the dvds aren't out yet to rewatch the episode while reading the scripts:

THE FIRE:
This is Liz and Jennifer at the beach house in Delaware:

The ocean, the air. It all smells the same.
The house we rented was right - There. 20 steps to the sand.
You remember.
This is where it happened. The fire. This is where I killed our father.
So that's why you were so sure about when he died. Because you shot him.
They were fighting. My father and my mother. Screaming at each other. And others I think. He was hurting her. I saw the gun and I just wanted to make it stop. I'm so sorry.
You were 4. You have nothing to be sorry about.
[March 1985 Masha Rostova is born in Moscow. - so she turned 4 in March 89, making the fire Dec 1989 - is her birthdate set in stone or could it be a mistake? Where do the timelines get this date?]

THE FITCH RECORDING:

Someone on the task force:
Reddington told us to look for a very specific needle in this haystack. A recording taken on December 7, 1990   (this is the recording of the Fitch/Katarina call)

FITCH: They pulled me out of a meeting. This better be important.
KATARINA: Reddington knows.He knows everything.
Fitch: Explain.
Katarina: He's discovered my identity. And the existence of the Cabal.
Fitch: Can he be contained?
Katarina: He took Masha.
Fitch: Eliminate him.
Katarina: He's a decorated officer. His death would be investigated.
Fitch: Whatever they find, they will believe.
Katarina: But if we discredit him The intelligence I stole We leak that it came from him. No one will believe him after that. Not with the blood of 134 Americans on his hands.
Fitch: Agent Rostova, I told you to eliminate him.
Katarina: And I'm telling you there's a better way.
Fitch: Because you're sleeping with him.
Katarina: Because he has proof that the Cabal exists, proof that would be released in the event of his death.
Fitch: The Fulcrum.
Katarina: And because I love his daughter. My daughter.
Fitch: I want this mess cleaned up. Get rid of him or ruin him. Just get it done by Christmas.

CAPE MAY/THE FERRY:

Liz to Dom: Who is he? And how is it connected to my mother? I know she didn't drown in Cape May.I know that, 6 months later, she helped whoever's pretending to be Reddington become Reddington.I have proof. What happened in those 6 months between the night the world thinks my mother drowned and the day Reddington came back from the dead? What happened?

RESSLER: That's it. That's all the CIA has on Katarina Rostova.
WARD: Well, hunting for spies who didn't come in from the cold after the Cold War isn't exactly a priority.
Anton Velov claimed that she was seen at the Cross Sound Ferry Terminal two weeks after her alleged suicide.
Yeah.Claimed, not proved. The ferry requires reservations, so if she was on it, her name would be on the manifest. And it wasn't.

Liz: I thought we had an agreement.
Ressler: An agreement? What agreement?
Liz: CIA documents from the Russia desk? Some kind of passenger manifest from '91? You're looking for my mother.
Ressler: Keen, listen.
Liz: I told you, I'm not interested in digging this up, and I'm certainly not interested in you digging this up.
Ressler: Keen, if you'd let me finish.This was in motion long before you and I spoke.I requested this file weeks ago, and it took this long.Look.It's nothing.All right? - See?
Liz: Thank you.

USS GIDEON DATES (from the trial testimony)

Lawyer: As the ranking officer on that Reddington Task Force, were you familiar with an incident that occurred involving the U.S.S.Gideon in March of 1990?
RESSLER: I was.Yes.The U.S.S.Gideon was an Ohio-class submarine sunk by the Soviet Navy while on a secret mission in the Barents Sea. 134 men were on board. They all died.
Lawyer: You say it was a secret mission.How did the Soviet Navy find out about it?
Ressler:Because Raymond Reddington told them.
Lawyer: Was the defendant the only one who knew about the mission?
Ressler: Raymond Reddington was one of 16 people who were aware of it. 12 Naval officers and four CIA operatives on the Russia desk.
...
Ressler: A month before the incident, a corporate account was opened in a Cypriot bank known to work with Soviet intelligence.The only person with the power to withdraw funds was the company president.
Lawyer: And who was that?
Ressler: Raymond Reddington.
Lawyer: I'm sure many accounts were opened in the weeks prior to the tragedy of the Gideon.What makes you think the activity in this account was connected to it?
Ressler: Because a front company for the KGB wired $3 million into the account a day before the incident, and another $3 million the day after it. One week later, the entire amount was withdrawn.
Lawyer: By Reddington?
Ressler: Yes. Using fingerprints and a password.
Lawyer: Thank you. No further questions.
Red: Was the withdrawal made in person?
Ressler: No. It was a wire transfer.
Red: You said the withdrawal required fingerprints and a password.
Ressler: It was done remotely.
Red:So if someone had a copy of my fingerprints and knew the password, they could have made the withdrawal, and no one at the bank, nor yourself, would have known the difference?
Ressler: I, uh, suppose that's possible.Yes.
Red: You know what else is possible? That I was framed by Katarina Rostova, which I could prove if Your Honor would grant me even the shortest ...
Judge: All right, the court will stand in recess.

Last edited by KathyN (6/16/2019 3:10 am)

Tatiana · 6/16/2019 10:44 am

KathyN - I tried, oh boy did I try, to get a timeline that would work and it never did. There's something that's always just a sliver off about timelines in TBL. The newspaper article with 2003 in it was an admitted mistake. But they swear they have a story bible and they stick to it. Seriously, shows have people whose purpose is to steer clear of continuity errors.
That said, I just keep thinking this could be a story told through memories and memories are unreliable. Red said something to the effect of "people think memories are like a video recorder ... but they're not. There more like a jigsaw puzzle where the pieces keep moving and changing"
Just my two cents.
Otherwise I would have abandoned a show with so many inconsistencies and lack of attention to detail.

Honey West · 6/16/2019 11:53 am

JB says that the dates will make sense once we know the whole story. We'll see.

So, I just had this thought - what if, after all we've been led to believe and accept, Liz isn't really Masha Rostova? She's a daughter of the real Raymond Reddington, though. I always thought is was strange in Requiem when Sam wouldn't let Kate see her, saying she prefers to be called Elizabeth now. And his excuse that it would disrupt her life to see Kate. Maybe because, by then, she was no longer Masha. We assumed it was the memory wipe, but what if she really was no longer Masha at all?

Just tossing that into the mix again. Not that I have anything to base it on, except Requiem. But it goes back to the two girls idea that used to float around a lot more.

KathyN · 6/16/2019 3:50 pm

Tatiana, I agree that something is off in the timelines. Despite there being a bible of dates, there is/was possibily a mistake in the year Liz was born. This is exactly why I periodically lose interest in the show. How can you do a mystery show, hoping the fans will follow along and try to solve it, when you're loosy goosy with the most important clues?

BTW, none of the dates I used are from memories, except Liz's birth year. All of the dates I'm using are firm, conclusive dates derived from real, actual documented facts given in Season 6. We have the CIA file on Katarina that puts her on the ferry in April 1991, we have the Kohler surgery documentation for surgery on Red done in October 1991. We have the trial testimony that the phone call happened with Fitch in Dec 1990. And although I don't have an image of it (if they actually showed it on the show, I'll have to wait for the dvds to rewatch) Jennifer had a newspaper clipping of the date of the fire. So that date was a date certain for her and Liz. And using that clipping, she told Liz she was 4 at the time of the fire. Twice actually, once while holding up the newspaper and once while at the beach house (I posted that dialogue above). And Liz didn't dispute it. So Liz had to have been born in 1986, not 1985 like all the timelines agree to up to this point if the fire happened in Dec 1990.

How did the timelines get the 1985 birth year? I remember when they got it, very early in the series iirc, I was posting on the WSJ site back then and I remember when the first poster posted it, but I don't remember how it was derived. Also, when was the DNA test done by Alexander? Was there a date given for that when Tom showed it to Liz? If that was done before March 1986, we know she had to have been born in 1985 too.

Reddington definitely died in 1990 (see Liz's comments about it being 5 years before 1995). But was it Jan 1990 or December 1990? that's what we don't know for sure at this point. And does it matter ultimately if the new Red became Red after the Oct 1991 surgery? From Bokencamp's comments, it might, he said the time around that date (before and after) are key...

Here's the dialogue about the newspaper article about the fire, I should have posted it above:

LIZ AND JENNIFER TALKING ABOUT THE NIGHT OF THE FIRE (approximation of who was talking; not sure of who is speaking all of the time, will have to wait for DVD's to watch again)

Liz: Raymond Reddington is a fraud. An imposter who took our father's place over 30 years ago. The FBI can trace this Reddington forward from '95. And I know for a fact that our father died five years before that.
Jennifer: The night of the fire.
Liz: Our father, the real Raymond Reddington, cheated on your mother with mine a Russian agent named Katarina Rostova. Our fake father's a criminal, and our real one's a snake. He took me from her in Russia. She followed him to America where we were staying. They got into a fight a fire started I got out, he didn't.
Jennifer: Wait. But how can you be so sure? You were 4.
Liz: The only person who knew Reddington was dead was in that house that night, so the person pretending to be him was either there that night, or got the idea to take this place from someone who was, wich is why I got this side storage.This contains everything I collected over the years is connected to the fire.

Liz: I was taken to a motel in Dover the night of the fire. But I went there.It's a dead end.
Jennifer: The motel maybe.Or Dover. But not Delaware. My parents used to take me there every summer. To a house they'd rent an hour outside Dover - in Rehoboth Beach.
Liz: So?
Jennifer: So maybe our father, the real Raymond Reddington, took you there. It was the dead of winter. Rehoboth Beach is a summer resort. It's the perfect place to hide.
Liz: I'll run a check. See if there was a fire in Rehoboth Beach that night.
Jennifer: I already did. [PAPER RUSTLING]
-You know what this means?
- Hell yeah. Road trip.

Last edited by KathyN (6/16/2019 3:53 pm)

KathyN · 6/16/2019 3:54 pm

Honeywest, interesting idea that there are two Liz's. That would fit the theme of doubles and dopplegangers. But for that to work, they would have had to implant Masha's memories of the night into the fire into our LIz; which means they didn't erase them, they gave them to her from the real Masha. Could be Katarina came back for Masha, or Masha was dying. Either way they needed Masha's memories to find the fulcrum, and they substituted a different Reddington daughter for genetic compatibility reasons (he'd have been very promiscuous getting 3 women pregnant at the same time!). Or they changed the new Masha/Liz's dna when they implanted the memories and she's not Reddington's daughter at all. There would have to be a good reason for Sam being in on it and agreeing to raise the new Masha/Liz who was not his friend's Katarina's daughter. This was the time Tom disappeared so there's room for some switching children conspiracy to be inserted into the story. But I don't see them going this way unless the program intends to veer off into Fringe-like territory. (Ha! great Fringe like plot: maybe they are clones, Masha, Liz, even Jennifer possibly, tweaked a little in the lab so they aren't exacts of each other, and maybe there are more out there). That would be fine with me, I loved Fringe, but I don't see this show as being that type of show so I'm going to nix the idea. Would have been great story telling though!

Last edited by KathyN (6/16/2019 3:57 pm)

Eastcoast · 6/16/2019 3:56 pm

Oh my goodness Honey-west!! I still wonder from time to time. I still want to know why we heard the man say her name was Elizabeth in her memories? She was not called Elizabeth until after the fire. I brought up one time that I thought KR had come back for her after the memory wipe.

I do hope we can make sense that we have 4 years that she has been born. 1983, 84, 85 and 86.

I had a chance to poke around for a few and I saw something on Aly's tumblr that reminded me of something that I had wanted to mention a while ago.

JB had said a long time ago that this was a 'chosen one' story'. I had wondered how that might tie into the statement that Red made about his Hobson Choice and that KR said he chose well?