Eastcoast - Liz does tell more than she should. But, unlike you. I was liking it.  Ressler is the only the way Liz or the audience finds anything out.  And we can trust his information.

I didn't see anyone I thought was supposed to be Susan Hargrave.  I thought Liz had taken Agnes to the amusement park.

Honey West wrote:

I do wonder about Liz's motives for all of her revealings. I can't help but think she's setting up something of her own and her information is being used as seeds to sow and reap even more information. I find it hard to believe she's gone back to being the Liz that falls for everything that she started out as.

Chosen ones and special ones, we're back to those again. Red is the one who has to follow her around like a faithful bloodhound because she is special. He can't harm her. He has shown that he can change his code up a bit if he wants to, though. Her immunity extended to Tom for awhile. Red couldn't kill him as long as he was protected by Liz's love. She was right - love wins. At least sometimes.

So Brimley's kid is part of the family business? That was funny. Always good to see Brimley or Glen from time to time. I hate to think what they were doing with the bees, though.

I just get the feeling that Ressler is going to find something out that he won't be able to tell Liz about.

But back to the Plot Against America and The Dossier. How much do you want to bet that Aram is the one who locates it?

Honey West - I hadn't considered Liz had any sort of motivation in revealing what she knew to both Red and Ressler.  But maybe she does have a plan. At least Ressler told her aboiut the Russian goons - so she knows there's still danger around searching for the info.

The new Love Wins code that Liz proclaimed is curious. If Red had talked to me like he did Liz at the beginning of episode, I don't think I would have been offering him love any time soon.  But she knows Red's love for her has always protected her in the past, so she's hoping that's what will eventually thaw him. She realizes turning him into the police was an awful mistake, and as she said in court, she knows he came out of the shadows because of love.  I'm hoping Love Wins is the theme of the whole show.

Do you feel Ressler will find something he won't be able to tell Liz about because he'll be taken or killed?  Or because it's something that would hurt her too deeply?

I thought finding that drive with the dossier would be like finding a needle in a haystack, but apparently not.  I can see Aram being instrumental to finding it.
 

The new code "Love" harkens back to Dom:

Love...love...love

NP wrote:

The McMahon  goon seems to be totally fed up with Anna and her panicky calls. I wouldn't be surprised if the "supervisor death curse" was being carried out by him. 

Sandquist may be the one to kill McMahon. I've never thought he and McMahon were really on the same side.
 

Tatiana wrote:

The new code "Love" harkens back to Dom:

Love...love...love

Good point!  Liz's little Love Wins speech and her change in attitude toward Red since the beginning of the season also goes back to what Liz told Red about forgiveness in connection with Tom in Season 3.

Red: Tom. After all the lies, all the deception and humiliation, how you can just forgive and forget.
Liz: I haven’t forgotten. Forgiveness can’t change the past, but I believe it can change the future.

Love wins, and so does forgiveness!
 

Last edited by Tuxie400 (5/04/2019 11:26 am)

Tatiana - It was also in Season 3 when Liz said the only thing she considers unforgiveable is Red keeping her mother from her.  That was when Red decided he would never tell her the truth. All this stuff about love and forgiveness is paving the way or Red to finally be able to tell Liz who he is.  But that won't come until next season.

It isn't that Red isn't capable of going the love and forgiveness route.  He was was willing to go that route with Dembe. He told him he loved him and forgave him. It was Dembe who couldn't forgive Red. Now Liz wants to go the route of love and forgiveness with Red and Red can't forgive Liz.   And ironically one of the reasons he can't forgive her could be because he lost Dembe, even though he tried the love and forgiveness route with him. And because he lost Kate, when he couldn't go the love and forgiveness route with her. Both because of situations Liz put them in asking their protection which involved them being disloyal to Red.  Interesting parallels going on.

Red had an interesting reaction when Liz said she was bringing Agnes home.  I'm not sure it was because it's still not safe - he never told her to let Agnes go for her safety. That was never a part of it. Liz said she was keeping Agnes safe from Red, and only Red - not any of his enemies, and now she doesn't think she needs to.  I think her comment  just rubbed salt in his wounds; carelessly and selfishly and without any empathy of what she's done to him.  She just casually mentions her quest for the truth has been solved, the quest that almost got him killed and lost him Dembe, as if "it's all ok now because I'm satisfied, the hell with it did to you and what it cost you. Isn't life grand? Even though you sacrificed so much for me over these past few years I still considered you a monster I was willing and eager to destroy - more than once -it's ok now because I love you and forgive you."  Without any regard to his feelings.  Meanwhile Red is sitting there tortured and conflicted because even though he wants to kill her, he can't.  Talk about contrasting feelings.  And instead of apologizing and discussing it all with him, she's just ignoring it all and saying let's be a happy family now, all is forgiven by me so it should be by you. Red really didn't need forgiveness from Liz for what's happened the last few months that he was in jail and seconds away from the needle, and Liz still needs tons of forgiveness from Red.   Liz has always been a narcissist but those comments really brought it home.

More evidence of Liz's narcissim and carelessness when it comes to Red is telling Ressler about Ilya.  She could've handled it differently, she needed to tell Ressler something to call off his searching, but she could've respected Red's privacy and his wishes to keep that part of his life secret.  I agree with the comment that maybe some of that is deliberate.  She can't/won't dig too deep about Ilya, as she told Ressler she's accepting the story on its face, but maybe also because she knows how mad Red is with her right now and doesn't want to push it. She also doesn't have the connections Ressler has - he is going through official channels/favors, she was doing it all off the book.   So instead she'll drop the crumb in front of Ressler hoping that he follows it, but leaving her with plausible deniability that she instigated the follow up searches.  So she's putting Ressler's life on the line, as carelessly as she put Red's, in search for the truth. And Jennifer's, while we're talking about people Liz has put in Red's path because Red has no obligation to spare Jennifer's life and she's the one who paid the woman to make the call to the police. (Although I suspect we won't hear more about that and Jennifer is going to be dropped from the story).   But point it - Liz hasn't learned anything from this.

Last edited by KathyN (5/04/2019 2:54 pm)

Kathy N -..I do think Liz is remiss in not acknowledging how hurt Red is by Dembe leaving. But I think Red has plenty to apologize to Liz for, and I'd like to see them both apologize to each other. 

Am I the only one who thought James Spader/Red did not look well?
I'm wondering if this is tied to all the pill-taking on the show... I hope so!

Last edited by RedIsMyCoPilot (5/04/2019 9:25 pm)

Re:FakeRed apologizing to Liz.  (I'll assume for the sake of this argument that FakeRed is Ilya.)

What does Ilya really have to apologize for?  He's not her father, the innocent naval officer framed by Katarina as a traitor. He's not her spy mother whose decisions put Liz's life in danger for the rest of her life.  His crime is watching out for the daughter of a friend who put her daughter, her father, and her mother's life in danger and got the father of her child killed. (*curious that Kirk's life was never in danger after her betrayal, I wonder why...) Ilya did this for  Katarina for 30 plus years,  financially and otherwise, seeing to it that Sam had money for Liz's upbringing and education. He sacrificed his previous life and everything that went with it to do this.  When he sent Tom Liz's way he thought it was the best way to have someone close to her in her life to protect her, he never expected Tom would tangle himself up completely in her life to the point of marrying her or betraying him by going to Berlin's side. That was all on Tom, not Ilya. And Liz loved and forgave Tom enough to remarry him. So she actually has Ilya to thank for that union, a union that produced Agnes.  Is it Ilya's fault Tom ran down the dna on the bones when Ilya asked him not  to, to respect his secret and privacy, Tom's ignoring of which ultimately got him killed? No, that's on Tom too. The reason Ilya turned himself into the FBI and inserted himself into Liz's life was Tom putting Liz's life in (more) danger.  That's also on Tom. Plus she has Red to thank for her rapid rise in the FBI and her entire career at this point which she'd never had gotten that quickly without Red requesting her on the day he turned himself in.

Ilya didn't put Liz's life in danger. Katarina did. Then the Cabal and the KGB  did. Then Tom did.  And whoever else is out there that he's protecting her from.  But not Ilya. He never once that I can remember put her life at risk.  His mission was to protect her and he's been faithful to it.

So what's his big crime as far as Liz is concerned? It boils down to one thing: he didn't reveal all his secrets to her. WOW. He definitely deserved to be put on death row for that.  He definitely deserved to think she died for that. He definitely deserved to lose his two closest associates over that.   And why should he reveal his secrets to her?  He doesn't owe her anything, he's not her father, he's not even blood related (and btw he never lied to her about, he only stayed silent finally when she jumped to the conclusion about the DNA).  He's gone above and beyond putting his life and assets at risk to protect her.  He lost his family (bubble/ballerina girl), his wife if he had one, his fortune (via Kate), his freedom, and his friends/associates Kate, Dembe, Mr. Gray.  All to protect the child of a friend.  And she's never been grateful, she's been petulant and spoiled.  She thinks he owes her his life and his secrets, he owes her neither.   Yes it would've been a lot easier on everyone had he just told her from the beginning he was a friend of her mother's who promised to look after her.  But not telling her is not a capital crime, and besides, had he done that we'd have lost 3-4 season of run-around .  And we still don't know why he couldn't tell her, presumably there is a valid reason that has to do with it being too dangerous, not just Ilya being selfish about keeping his identity to himself. If it's because he wasn't sure he could trust her with his secrets we have seen he was right about that - he can't. She has done nothing to guard his privacy.   So even that can't be faulted to him.