The Blacklist Refugees » Episode 6.04

Tatiana · 1/21/2019 10:43 am

Eastcoast wrote:
So I was trying to think who that guy in the pic reminded me of, and it is the guy we saw Liz talking to. I think we were talking about that pic a few weeks ago. I think he had a weird hat on?

I really cannot believe they invite people to their Home for this stuff instead of meeting them somewhere?

I was thinking about what Jennifer said to Liz about them meeting each other not being enough.
She is acting a little like Liz did at first wanting answers. She wants an answer for why her mom was a part of this. She knows that her mom met this man and still did Not come back into her life. I think she is hurt and is trying to put this together. She had been hiding her whole life scared to death from what I can tell so far and it was all for nothing in her eyes.

Can you be more specific? What episode/scene? I'd like to go back and look at it. Thanks!

Tuxie400 · 1/21/2019 10:50 am

NP wrote:
Can someone explain to me, why the RR family was feeling threatened? It seems to me that there was no real basis for any fear, guy walks out of them and doesn't try to find them ever. No reason to feel fear at least from the man who left.
Different story is of course if there was a threat of them being used against RR/Red as a leverage or something?

I think they did have reason to feel threatened from the Cabal becasue of the fulcrum. I know most people think Red is a great guy, but he's also a ruthless criminal who would do "whatever I have to do" to keep Liz safe. It's possible he might have threatened to harm Jennifer in order to get the deal with Carla/Naomi "never saying anything about Red and Liz". I've been rethinking the Naomi storyline in Season 2. We thought Red was so worried about Naomi because she was his wife. But maybe he was mostly worried about her telling Berlin about Liz. We thought when Naomi hit Red she was playing the role of the angry wife. But now that she has Jennifer hidden away, she punches him - what she's always wanted to do. The kiss at the end was just for show - to reinforce the idea that Red is the real Raymond Reddington for Liz and Frank. He was playing a role - just like Liz is playing the concerned daughter now.

I know some theorists who still believe Red is the real RR are hanging their fedoras on the Naomi storyline, of Red and Kaplan calling her his wife. But I believe both were just calling her that to support his role as RR. Once an operative takes on a role, he never comes out of character.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (1/21/2019 10:55 am)

Big Badd Bazzer · 1/21/2019 10:54 am

Speaking of Manhattan, too bad Leonard Cohen died a couple years back. He would have made a fascinating black-lister - The Poet, No. 56, lol

But here's a Cohen song with innumerable mentions of both Manhattan & Berlin. I think its somewhat appropriate to Red . . . . but judge for yourself . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTTC_fD598A

Big Badd Bazzer · 1/21/2019 10:58 am

While on a bit of a Leonard Cohen roll, here's what I consider the greatest Cohen song of all, released just weeks after his death. Its called "You Want it Darker"

Listen closely, it could easily be re-titled 'The Blacklist Theme" or "Red's Theme"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD6fvzGIBfQ

Tuxie400 · 1/21/2019 10:59 am

Big Badd Bazzer wrote:
Speaking of Manhattan, too bad Leonard Cohen died a couple years back. He would have made a fascinating black-lister - The Poet, No. 56, lol

But here's a Cohen song with innumerable mentions of both Manhattan & Berlin. I think its somewhat appropriate to Red . . . . but judge for yourself . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTTC_fD598A

BBB - Great song and video! I know several of Leonard Cohen's songs, but I'd never heard that one. It would be a good Blacklist song, and I agree, Leonard himself would have made a good Blacklister. Hellelujah is my favorite Cohen song. Dance Me to the End of Love is my second favorite.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (1/21/2019 11:00 am)

Big Badd Bazzer · 1/21/2019 11:07 am

Tuxie400 wrote:
Big Badd Bazzer wrote:
Speaking of Manhattan, too bad Leonard Cohen died a couple years back. He would have made a fascinating black-lister - The Poet, No. 56, lol

But here's a Cohen song with innumerable mentions of both Manhattan & Berlin. I think its somewhat appropriate to Red . . . . but judge for yourself . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTTC_fD598A
BBB - Great song and video! I know several of Leonard Cohen's songs, but I'd never heard that one. It would be a good Blacklist song, and I agree, Leonard himself would have made a good Blacklister. Hellelujah is my favorite Cohen song. Dance Me to the End of Love is my second favorite.

Tuxie - get ahold of 'You Want it Darker' by Leonard. It is not a joyful, upbeat album but its so full of serious and realistic imagery. I've probably listened to it 100+ times since purchasing it. Available in CD or vinyl LP - or download . . . .

Colleen · 1/21/2019 11:40 am

Big Badd Bazzer wrote:
First he took over The Post Office -
- then he takes over a major prison -

Whats left? Manhattan? Or in TBL universe = MANRATTAN?

BBB I laughed out loud!

Leonard Cohen was the best. And Manrattan!!! :-)

Tatiana · 1/21/2019 11:49 am

NP wrote:
Can someone explain to me, why the RR family was feeling threatened? It seems to me that there was no real basis for any fear, guy walks out of them and doesn't try to find them ever. No reason to feel fear at least from the man who left.
Different story is of course if there was a threat of them being used against RR/Red as a leverage or something?

Here's something from my blog that might help. It explains what happened after the time of the fire:In those 10 months the FBI came after Carla and tried to implicate her in the theft of the fulcrum, they froze her assets, they pursued her, it was awful. Until the FBI decided they needed to make a story as to why Reddington disappeared (so maybe they didn’t know he was dead) and within less than 24 hours, Carla and her daughter were placed in WITSEC in Philly.Carla knew about Elizabeth. Was the house in the country, where Red brought Carla, a love tryst for the real Raymond Reddington and Katarina?

“I can’t believe you brought me HERE!” Carla growls through clenched teeth.

I believe Katarina approached Carla, told Carla she would always be under scrutiny for as long as the fulcrum was in question, told her of Raymond’s death, promised to keep her safe ONLY if in EXCHANGE Carla agreed to keep silent about the relationship and silent about Elizabeth.

Tuxie400 · 1/21/2019 1:04 pm

Eastcoast wrote:
So I was trying to think who that guy in the pic reminded me of, and it is the guy we saw Liz talking to. I think we were talking about that pic a few weeks ago. I think he had a weird hat on?

I really cannot believe they invite people to their Home for this stuff instead of meeting them somewhere?

I was thinking about what Jennifer said to Liz about them meeting each other not being enough.
She is acting a little like Liz did at first wanting answers. She wants an answer for why her mom was a part of this. She knows that her mom met this man and still did Not come back into her life. I think she is hurt and is trying to put this together. She had been hiding her whole life scared to death from what I can tell so far and it was all for nothing in her eyes.

When did we see Liz talking to someone who looked like Klepper? Was it in a promo or in an episode?

I agree meeting at Liz's apartment isn't such a good idea. I expect Dembe to evenually figure out what the sisters are doing.

Jennifer is a mirror to Liz, and both are still in that anger stage of grief. Jennifer, having lost both Naomi and Ian, feels totally alone. Liz still has Red's love and concern, even though she is so angry at him. She feels he betrayed her big time by letting her think he was her father. For Jennifer, finding a sister isn't enough right now. She wants revenge pure and simple for a stolen life and the lives of Ian and her father. The interesting thing is Liz is the one who supposedly actually killed the real RR and also Ian Garvey. I still wonder if Jennifer will also try to take her out at some point. It was interesting that Liz was so hurt by Jennifer's comment that she teared up a bit.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (1/21/2019 1:14 pm)

Eastcoast · 1/21/2019 2:50 pm

It was in a promo. She was talking about not being able to trust people close to you, like family, I think? We haven't seen the episode yet. My head is foggy....

I will look for it later. I'm on my way back to the dr. I am trying to get over this flu and I think it's coming back.

IowaWatcher · 1/21/2019 3:21 pm

Eastcoast wrote:
I am trying to get over this flu and I think it's coming back.

Feel better soon, Eastcoast!

I'm not a doctor and this is not medical advice, but Chinese hot and spicy soup is helpful for me . . . all that garlic!

Tuxie400 · 1/21/2019 4:14 pm

Eastcoast - Take care! Hope the doc gives you some good meds!

Tuxie400 · 1/21/2019 11:48 pm

Could it be that the file on Koehler's list that Red deleted was not actually his? He really didn't give Liz a solid yes answer when she asked if it was his:

Red: No, it’s not. One file has been deleted.
Liz: Yours.
Red: [ SIGHS ] I prefer to keep my nips and tucks to myself. Forgive an old man his vanity.

If it's not Red's, could it be Katarina's, if she is still alive? Or even Dom's.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (1/21/2019 11:49 pm)

Eastcoast · 1/22/2019 12:34 am

Tuxie400 wrote:
Could it be that the file on Koehler's list that Red deleted was not actually his? He really didn't give Liz a solid yes answer when she asked if it was his:

Red: No, it’s not. One file has been deleted.
Liz: Yours.
Red: [ SIGHS ] I prefer to keep my nips and tucks to myself. Forgive an old man his vanity.

If it's not Red's, could it be Katarina's, if she is still alive? Or even Dom's.

Tuxie, I just got on here to post about this. lol

I have been wondering if he deleted someone elses file, possibly just to mislead Liz. Maybe his is on there? lol
I also wondered about anyone we have seen on the show especially Naomi since he mentioned how different she looked.

Eastcoast · 1/22/2019 12:35 am

Tuxie400 wrote:
Eastcoast - Take care! Hope the doc gives you some good meds!

I have strep throat....

TheYeti · 1/22/2019 12:38 am

Tuxie400 wrote:
Could it be that the file on Koehler's list that Red deleted was not actually his? He really didn't give Liz a solid yes answer when she asked if it was his:

Red: No, it’s not. One file has been deleted.
Liz: Yours.
Red: [ SIGHS ] I prefer to keep my nips and tucks to myself. Forgive an old man his vanity.

If it's not Red's, could it be Katarina's, if she is still alive? Or even Dom's.

That’s an interesting theory. I always found it strange that the writers brought in Dr. Koehler. After all, didn’t Red confirm in S01E08 “General Ludd” that he had undergone plastic surgery from dr. Abraham Maltz? The date of the missing file is matching the time of Red’s disappearance though and Koehler seemed to recognize Red as a former client.

It is possible however that Red and Koehler knew each other in a different way. Maybe Red referred a client to him which could indeed be Dom or Katarina or even Naomi?. In that case it’s possible Red deleted that particular file, to protect them or maybe to misdirect Liz, which would suggest that he suspects she knows the contents of the duffel bag.

Edit: I just realise there’s more people posting about this. Glad to see some similar thoughts.

Last edited by TheYeti (1/22/2019 12:39 am)

Eastcoast · 1/22/2019 12:58 am

TheYeti wrote:
Tuxie400 wrote:
Could it be that the file on Koehler's list that Red deleted was not actually his? He really didn't give Liz a solid yes answer when she asked if it was his:

Red: No, it’s not. One file has been deleted.
Liz: Yours.
Red: [ SIGHS ] I prefer to keep my nips and tucks to myself. Forgive an old man his vanity.

If it's not Red's, could it be Katarina's, if she is still alive? Or even Dom's.

That’s an interesting theory. I always found it strange that the writers brought in Dr. Koehler. After all, didn’t Red confirm in S01E08 “General Ludd” that he had undergone plastic surgery from dr. Abraham Maltz? The date of the missing file is matching the time of Red’s disappearance though and Koehler seemed to recognize Red as a former client.

It is possible however that Red and Koehler knew each other in a different way. Maybe Red referred a client to him which could indeed be Dom or Katarina or even Naomi?. In that case it’s possible Red deleted that particular file, to protect them or maybe to misdirect Liz, which would suggest that he suspects she knows the contents of the duffel bag.

Edit: I just realise there’s more people posting about this. Glad to see some similar thoughts.

I was thinking about the reason he wanted that list of people who were in Witness Protection in the Harem. It may not just be himself he is protecting. Although the Dr. did seam to know him well enough to tell him where to find it. But I still wonder who else is on there.

TheYeti · 1/22/2019 5:25 am

I rewatched that episode last week and it brought some questions up to me too. In season 2 it seemed Red wanted to find Jennifer. Shouldn’t she be on that list? If Red wanted to find her or Naomi, he could have simply used the list.

Eastcoast · 1/22/2019 8:35 am

TheYeti wrote:
I rewatched that episode last week and it brought some questions up to me too. In season 2 it seemed Red wanted to find Jennifer. Shouldn’t she be on that list? If Red wanted to find her or Naomi, he could have simply used the list.

In season 2, Naomi told Red Jennifer left because she was afraid that he would come looking for her one day and she didn't know where she was.
Also, Garvey moved Jennifer a few years ago to Baltimore from Va.
I don't think he knew where she was.

Tuxie400 · 1/22/2019 10:28 am

Eastcoast and Yeti - I did think about the possibility that it might be Carla/Naomi on Koehler's patient file. I would think a lot of the "men and women" on Koehler's criminal patient list would have been Red referrals. I also found it interesting that Red kept using the phrase "men and women" for people on the file. That made me think the deleted file might have been a woman's. Obviously the best person to retrieve that file would be Aram. When will Lizzy become desperate enough to involve him?

Last edited by Tuxie400 (1/22/2019 10:28 am)