The Blacklist Refugees » Who, what, when, why, where

NP · 6/12/2018 9:26 am

It just struck me.
Remember the photo of a woman and girl on a swing? The one Lizzy found on that apartment which Dembe said Red can never know she was in. Are those in the pic actually Red's real wife and daughter? Since Liz and Katarina are shown to be both with straight hair and when Liz blondes her hair and it's wavy, Red thinks he saw 'your mother' in the mirror. (Katarina is a redhead so mistaking a curly blonde as a straight hair redhead seems unlikely). Elizabeth could have been one of Red's daughter's names.
If that is a case, then the man in uniform could have been Red's father? (there were lots of old family photos around) And that secret apartment his "real" home, where he is himself and not Raymond Reddington, the criminal mastermind.

Last edited by NP (6/12/2018 9:34 am)

Honey West · 6/12/2018 3:01 pm

NP, clearly I really need to go back and watch the show again with "new eyes. I hadn’t even thought about his little Bethesda place. But you know you could be right about that. It could be a place where he can retreat and "be himself" whoever that is. Perhaps there are more truths about him in that space than we realized at the time, although we dissected the photos of the apartment pretty good at the time on the old board. Or so we thought...

NP · 6/12/2018 3:48 pm

After I read the article where Jon said that Spader knew the truth from the beginning, I started to watch the show from the start with fine tooth comb. Every word, every twitch analysed and recorded on paper, especially regarding the relationship between Liz and Red.

Tatiana · 6/12/2018 11:01 pm

Honey West wrote:
Liz has been learning and becoming. We thought she was becoming more like Red, but I think actually she is becoming more like Katarina. A very intelligent and resourceful lady. When Red said that about her he sounded so full of admiration for her skills. I wonder if he and Katarina were in competition. Rivals.

Well he does tell Liz he'll be waiting for her at the "finish line".

Red[CHUCKLES] I suppose it was inevitable.
Liz- What's that?
Red - Our sprint to the finish.
The bag is just out of reach now.
After everything we've been through, it won't be long before one of us has it.
Liz - No, not one of us.
Me.
Red - What would you say to flying back with me on my jet, enjoying a few hours of peace and quiet before we repair to our neutral corners?
Liz - I'd say that's a very generous offer.
Red - Yes, it would be, if I was to offer that.
[BREATHES DEEPLY] Which I'm not.
Goodbye, Elizabeth.
I'll be waiting at the finish line.

There's some mixed metaphors here, a sprint to the finish (a foot race);
repairing to our neutral corners, (boxing match)

I still find Red's theoretical proposition to be odd. Why does he ask if she wants a ride on her jet? They're talking about who's going to find the duffel bag first?

NP · 6/13/2018 11:39 am

I have to take back what I said about the pic, it is Liz and Katarina, little dark haired girl and red haired woman. The pic is shown better in the next episode, so regarding the picture my thought was misdirected.
Oh and Red has a cat

Last edited by NP (6/13/2018 12:19 pm)

Honey West · 6/13/2018 3:25 pm

NP wrote:
I have to take back what I said about the pic, it is Liz and Katarina, little dark haired girl and red haired woman. The pic is shown better in the next episode, so regarding the picture my thought was misdirected.
Oh and Red has a cat

Yes, we keep wondering who takes care of Flat Cat, and where did it go? Did kitty and Hudson find a new home together? So many loose ends!

Eastcoast · 6/13/2018 10:42 pm

Honeywest, speaking of our beloved flat cat, I did some rewinding and it is a bit weird in my opinion the way the camera shows the cat. Almost spooky!

Tatiana · 6/15/2018 11:31 pm

You know how we often watch Tbl and say, gee, that seems really familiar? A TBL fan was binge watching and noticed that both Lady Ambrosia and Ian Garvey live in the same house!!! Yep, a very nice white 3 story house with big porch.

Tuxie400 · 6/16/2018 11:59 am

Supposedly the cabin in Ruin was the same one they used where Tom, Ressler and Karakurt had the shootout with Solomon and his team.

Tatiana · 6/16/2018 1:20 pm

That's interesting Tuxie.
I have read that's pretty common in this series and I would have to think the limited and very expensive 'inventory' for settings limits what they can use. But that house really is so distinguished I'm surprised they re-used it.

Was the house Red brought Carla to used more than once? for some reason it seemed similar.

Tuxie400 · 6/16/2018 8:57 pm

Someone said the Naomi cabin was the same as the one in Ruin and the season 3 episode that had the Solomon shootout.. But I could never tell. The unique stone fireplace is in Ruin and the Solomon shootout, but not in the Season 2 Naomi cabin.

Tatiana · 6/16/2018 9:32 pm

I always thought the Naomi cabin and the Solomon shootout cabin looked similar but I didn't think they were exactly the same. Maybe they just like to recycle everything lol!

Eastcoast · 6/16/2018 10:44 pm

I suppose they can just change the furniture and curtains along with some mirrors and a fake fireplace if need be and make it all look different. It is interesting to learn what they can use again and again.

Tatiana · 6/17/2018 5:41 pm

We've discussed Soviet spies who go to camps to become Americanized (I believe there was one episode in the blacklist spinoff). A member on a Facebook TBL discussion page shared a link to this interesting article about Yuri Drozdov, the leader of such a highly successful effort.

He spoke of desirable traits for these spies, among them adaptability was key, but he also spoke of other "'ones that are elusive and hard to transmit into words, a special artistry", are also required to be able to forget one's identity and become someone else.'

Here's a link to the article.https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40367736

NP · 6/19/2018 12:25 pm

Interesting coincidence, there is a this Americanization camp in BL and Agent Carter, and the actress of Katarina is in both of them

Tatiana · 6/21/2018 8:59 am

I think the show The Americans follows in this idea. The idea that there were Soviet camps set up to make people American. But I do find it very intriguing. I keep thinking back to it's the children and I wonder if there weren't camp set up for children to become completely different than who they are. Okay I know that's vague but its just my idea today!

Honey West · 6/21/2018 3:07 pm

I don’t think that’s so far out, Tatiana. When Katarina was telling Kate what her duties were it almost sounded like she was being told to be a keeper rather than a nanny. All the you musts and not to love her. Then later she mentions a "campus" after Masha is kidnapped. I wonder if it was more of a camp than a school. And I still think Katarina's pregnancy was no accident. After all it would certainly put her out of commission as a seductress and spy for a time. I think Masha was supposed to be one of those children. So the question is, did RR take her to escape from that life or because he just wanted to get her away from Katarina? Or both? And how does Red fit into this whole scheme? And was Oleander in charge of the project?

Tatiana · 6/21/2018 4:37 pm

Maybe this isn't so far off after all. Remember, it was in The Freelancer that Floriana Campo, head of the Eberhardt cartel, told Liz "These girls...they are my family". This kind of goes down a dark path. This is the full exchange between Liz and Floriana, Floriana speaking:

Do you have children, agent Keen?
There is no work more meaningful than being a mother.
I didn't have kids of my own.
This is my one regret.
But these girls that I'm trying to protect, they are my family.
Tonight is for them.
I won't cancel.

So here we have Floriana Campo saying in essence that her 'girls' are her adopted daughters and that she is their surrogate mother. Except she is very much the evil mother. And these are 'girls' not individuals. They come in shipments.

This is significant because Liz is in the process of adoption and we come back to this at the end of the episode. This is a huge issue and seemingly unrelated to the Raymond Reddington story line.

The girls are Floriana's commodity. Yet she is referring to them as though they are her children.

At the fundraising party she introduces a young woman, Anya*, who had been imprisoned by the Eberhardt cartel. She says, "For all I survived, I still carry a daily reminder. The people who took me, the Eberhardt cartel, they brand their servants by carving their symbol into the flesh on our backs."

Dembe has a daily scar. Liz does too.

They are marked. Maybe they are the 'chosen' ones?

So I keep in mind that Bokenkamp says the answers the puzzle are all in the first episodes. Somehow there's more here than what we've unpacked so far.

"It's the children whom the world almost breaks who grow up to save it." Red says to Liz giving birth to Agnes.

It's about the children but it's also about their creators/parents/caregivers.

*Anya is also the name of the abducted hearing impaired girl in Lady Ambrosia, daughter of Vasilia Patinka.

Last edited by Tatiana (6/21/2018 4:42 pm)

Honey West · 6/21/2018 9:52 pm

Yes, I was also reminded of Lady Ambrosia. Red has said more than once that Liz is his salvation, his light to find his way back home. Maybe he regrets his role in whatever took place with the children like Liz. Saving her may save him. Obviously he knows she is not his daughter, but what was/is his role in all of this?

NP · 6/27/2018 7:46 am

What if liz's scar is from a branding iron? Her scar and makr on the go-boxes look the same, and the boxes are branded with scorching the mark in them. Thst would also explain the fire itself, how it got started, by Liz dropping the iron that burned her and not a gun. It's likely that someone else shot RR, maybe by accident as a responce to Liz scream in pain due the burn.