The Blacklist Refugees

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5/16/2018 8:44 pm  #81


Re: Episode 5.22 - Sutton Ross - Discussion Page

KathyN - I like your theory and have thought parts of it myself.  I particularly like that you linked Tom's understanding with what he discovered at the fake American village etc.

Re your comments on Liz, yes i agree, that's why I thought that she didn't believe that Red was her father.  But evidently, she did.  But now she knows better I guess.

 

5/16/2018 8:45 pm  #82


Re: Episode 5.22 - Sutton Ross - Discussion Page

Tuxie400 wrote:

I think it's very telling that Red takes the bones and burns them with Dom. 

Tuxie400 - why specifically?  And I wonder why he didn't do that in the first place instead of burying them under a tree  

     Thread Starter
 

5/16/2018 8:47 pm  #83


Re: Episode 5.22 - Sutton Ross - Discussion Page

I still think it was a twist ending even though many of us saw imposter coming.....because Liz does know and is teaming up with Jennifer.....which many may not have seen coming.

     Thread Starter
 

5/16/2018 8:48 pm  #84


Re: Episode 5.22 - Sutton Ross - Discussion Page

I've never been in the "Red doesn't lie to Liz" camp. He does lie to her.  Sometimes by omission, and now in the case of telling her he is Raymond Reddington for 5 years, he has been doing it constantly and directly.  I mean, yes he has been living as the guy for 30 years or whatever, but he's still a liar because he's not really Raymond Reddington.   I'm glad we have 8 months break before the next season.  I'm going to need that time to process my feelings on him being a fraud. 

I think part of what gets me the most is that he never tried to correct her this season about being her father.   I know he had to pretend to be RR, but he's pretty clever.  Surely there was something else he could have done. He allowed her to believe that, knowing full well how much knowing where she came from meant to her.  That (on top of Tom dying and her coma) just makes it even worse for her.   I would've been mad at him even before all of that, but it makes me even more angry with him now.

 And if he isn't Katarina (or some other type of relative), his interest in and devotion to her becomes super extra creepy. 

Last edited by Brittany (5/16/2018 8:48 pm)

 

5/16/2018 8:48 pm  #85


Re: Episode 5.22 - Sutton Ross - Discussion Page

Another theory that went down tubes tonight is that Cooper is in cahoots with Red, and knew more than he let on. He was clearly Team Liz tonight. Go Harold!

 

5/16/2018 8:57 pm  #86


Re: Episode 5.22 - Sutton Ross - Discussion Page

lara1 wrote:

Tuxie400 wrote:

I think it's very telling that Red takes the bones and burns them with Dom. 

Tuxie400 - why specifically?  And I wonder why he didn't do that in the first place instead of burying them under a tree  

Red is burning them with people considered family.
 

 

5/16/2018 9:00 pm  #87


Re: Episode 5.22 - Sutton Ross - Discussion Page

Brittany - I agree that if he's not Katarina his interest is very creepy. I think as The Person Formerly Known as Katarina, Red enjoyed the chance to finally get closer to Liz in a parent/child relationship.

 

5/16/2018 9:01 pm  #88


Re: Episode 5.22 - Sutton Ross - Discussion Page

Well, I was disappointed we didn't get a full fire night reveal - especially after all those many fire images this season.

 

5/16/2018 9:01 pm  #89


Re: Episode 5.22 - Sutton Ross - Discussion Page

Now I'm thinking the medical imagery will connect with Katarina's changing to Raymond.

 

5/16/2018 9:07 pm  #90


Re: Episode 5.22 - Sutton Ross - Discussion Page

Tuxie400 wrote:

lara1 wrote:

Tuxie400 wrote:

I think it's very telling that Red takes the bones and burns them with Dom. 

Tuxie400 - why specifically?  And I wonder why he didn't do that in the first place instead of burying them under a tree  

Red is burning them with people considered family.
 

Honestly, if you're going to take over someone's identity but bury their bones in a suitcase where other people can find them, you deserve to be exposed.  I mean, really.  How hard is it to set them on fire?  Apparently not that hard.  Man, I'm salty with Red tonight.  

 

5/16/2018 9:13 pm  #91


Re: Episode 5.22 - Sutton Ross - Discussion Page

Brittany - the reason why, I think is this (maybe) - KR originally helped to bury the real RR as she loved him.  So they were not tampered with.  Then, something happened, maybe more recently, where they had to be moved, to protect them, to Tansi Farms.

That is why Kaplan apologized to KR when digging them up.  Disturbing the final resting place of the man KR loved.  And now, Red has to burn them to keep anyone else getting them.  Red had affection and maybe even love for KR which is why he kept them buried.  I have thought Dom his father, maybe KR then his sister.  or half-sister.

     Thread Starter
 

5/16/2018 9:15 pm  #92


Re: Episode 5.22 - Sutton Ross - Discussion Page

I'll elaborate on this later: since we now know the bones are RR, that means that KR could still be
alive out there somewhere.


 

 

5/16/2018 9:16 pm  #93


Re: Episode 5.22 - Sutton Ross - Discussion Page

Tuie400 - the thing that questions Rederina for me is Kaplan's different attitude with Red on the bridge and her apology to KR when digging up the bones.  She has two different attitudes; 2 different people, Red and KR.

Though of course I don't count it out as a theory.  But I do think this reveal helps to explain some of the RR/Red inconstancy in the timeline with kaplan.  RR had one timeline; Red the other.

     Thread Starter
 

5/16/2018 9:18 pm  #94


Re: Episode 5.22 - Sutton Ross - Discussion Page

lara1 wrote:

  I have thought Dom his father, maybe KR then his sister.  or half-sister.

That's entirely possible.

Who is KR's mother, Dom's wife. What happened to her? She hasn't been mentioned in the series
at all.

 

5/16/2018 9:18 pm  #95


Re: Episode 5.22 - Sutton Ross - Discussion Page

I'm going to jump onto the Blacklist Exposed podcast, so will touch back later. 


"I could tell you how to win a marathon, but you're assuming it's a 26.2 mile race. It's not. It's a 6.2 mile race that begins at mile 20." Raymond Reddington
 

5/16/2018 9:38 pm  #96


Re: Episode 5.22 - Sutton Ross - Discussion Page

lara1 wrote:

Tuie400 - the thing that questions Rederina for me is Kaplan's different attitude with Red on the bridge and her apology to KR when digging up the bones.  She has two different attitudes; 2 different people, Red and KR.

Though of course I don't count it out as a theory.  But I do think this reveal helps to explain some of the RR/Red inconstancy in the timeline with kaplan.  RR had one timeline; Red the other.

They are pretty much two people. The Katarina that Kaplan knew - Liz's mother - was a very different person from the violent outlaw man Raymond became.
 

 

5/16/2018 10:02 pm  #97


Re: Episode 5.22 - Sutton Ross - Discussion Page

I am not sure Exactly how I feel about this episode.  I wasn't really shocked or surprised.  They built it up so much I guess I expected more.  I wanted something that was not so obvious.  

​At least a few things are confirmed.  Liz must have shot her dad. I guess. I feel like I do not know what I really believe.  I have a ton of other theories in my head right now.  I do feel like he must be her uncle or someone close because he trades her life for his with no hesitation.  Whoever he is to her he is the only one who seams to be bothered by the truth.  Everyone else seams to know he cares about her since she was a small child and that he looks out for her. 


 


It's a shame you have no crackers  
 

5/16/2018 10:05 pm  #98


Re: Episode 5.22 - Sutton Ross - Discussion Page

Tuxie400 wrote:

lara1 wrote:

Tuie400 - the thing that questions Rederina for me is Kaplan's different attitude with Red on the bridge and her apology to KR when digging up the bones.  She has two different attitudes; 2 different people, Red and KR.

Though of course I don't count it out as a theory.  But I do think this reveal helps to explain some of the RR/Red inconstancy in the timeline with kaplan.  RR had one timeline; Red the other.

They are pretty much two people. The Katarina that Kaplan knew - Liz's mother - was a very different person from the violent outlaw man Raymond became.
 

I think she was apologizing at the tree for digging up Liz's father and getting ready to throw a wrench into her life. 


 


It's a shame you have no crackers  
 

5/16/2018 10:08 pm  #99


Re: Episode 5.22 - Sutton Ross - Discussion Page

Red didn't kill Tom.  Tom's association with Red got him killed. I think they are implying the same thing for Naomi - not that he himself killed her, just that being in his orbit got her killed. Why would he go to the trouble of hunting her down if he knew he had already killed her?   But the Diane reference was a real stretch.  This was the dialogue when he shot her:

Diane: I know the truth Red, about that night, about what happened to your family. Do you want to know the truth?
Red: More than anything in the world. But if you know the truth, Diane, then somebody else does, too.

He knew the truth that he was an imposter. Why would he want to know that more than anything in the world.  And he killed her for giving his location to Anslo Garrick, not because she knew he wasn't RealRed. Anslo Garrick was looking for  Raymond Reddington too, not fakeRed's real identity.  So how does that interaction between them imply she knew he was an imposter? I think they are creatively re-visiting past episodes.

As for Redarina - I can see it being possible, I just don't like it as a theory.  But I agree it's creepy if he's not a blood relative, I hope they explain it.  This is what they've told us so far. FakeRed came out of hiding and turned himself into the FBI because Liz was about to be in danger and he needed to protect her.  

Red (before turning himself into the FBI): As I feared would happen, elements from Katarina's past are circling Elizabeth like a pack of wolves in the night. I put Tom Keen in her life to keep an eye on her, and he married her.

Other hints in past dialogue:

Kaplan: Masha, I can show you the truth.
Liz: What truth?
Kaplan: If you want to know why he came into your life

Dom:  Did you even tell her about me?
Red: I couldn't. You know how complicated it was.
Dom: There was nothing complicated about it. We had to back out of Masha's life to keep her safe, after you made a colossal mess of everything.

Dom:  She's gone because of choices you made for both of them. First Katarina and then Masha. As far as I'm concerned, you killed my entire family!

Dembe:  Raymond I'm not sure Elizabeth will ever be ready to learn about what you did to Katarina.

Dom: I never heard from Katarina after she left for America. What really happened to her I think there are some people who want to keep that information a secret. And I think they will do whatever is necessary even now to keep it that way.

Kirk: I remember being an honest businessman in a happy marriage until you came along. Seduced my wife.To her credit, Katarina broke it off,  but you couldn't let go.I came home one night and they were gone my wife, my child. My girl who's not even my girl.

Kirk: Now, let's start at the beginning. I had proof that she was my daughter. A DNA test.
Red: You saw what Katarina wanted you to see. She lied to you about everything. KGB trained her to seduce foreign diplomats, intel intelligence personnel into believ revealing secrets.  You always thought I was the interloper. The truth is that I was an assignment. I'm sure you were, too.
Kirk: That's a lie.
Red: A cover then. You were wealthy and powerful. Gave her access.

Red: In 1990, the KGB and the CIA had almost nothing in common except the mutual determination to hunt down one individual.
Jennifer: You.  
Red: Being a fugitive from American law enforcement is a lot easier than being a fugitive from the two most powerful nations on Earth. And anyone close to a target of theirs becomes a target themselves.
Jennifer: Family.
Red: Especially family. Unless they're abandoned on the side of a road on Christmas Eve.

Red: I make no apologies for who I am or what I do. Katarina was a traitor to two countries, both global superpowers. God willing, Katarina's daughter will live a private life of quiet courage. But if anyone learns her identity, the only way I can stop the threats from rising is to rise up as a greater threat than all of them.

 

Last edited by KathyN (5/16/2018 10:12 pm)

 

5/16/2018 10:21 pm  #100


Re: Episode 5.22 - Sutton Ross - Discussion Page

lara1 wrote:

ANOTHER weird movie theater showing strange films

This is what I do, I look at your posts while I am watching being careful to stay behind the clock.
The movie was It Happened One Night. Clark Gable and Claudette Colbert.
 


“I am exactly who I am. And I can assure you, I’m a far more interesting Raymond Reddington than Raymond Reddington ever was."
 

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