Tuxie400 wrote:

Earlier on this thread we talked about all the things that have been poked in people's necks during the series. But during my rewatch I've noticed many injuries, deaths, beheadings and markings that involved people's necks. Do some of the writers have a neck fetish, or is it a major recurring clue? 

Liz stuck the pen in Red's neck
Liz used a pen in Floriana Campo's throat to open her airway
Mako Tanida was beheaded
The Kingmaker chokes Liz
Meera Malick's neck was cut
Red poked the stick in Frank's neck
Fitch had a bomb strapped around his neck
Tom choking Eugene Ames when he gets his legs around his neck
​Liz trying to choke the Deer Hunter in a similar fashion
Leonard Caul had his throat cut
Tom Keen's Nazi necj tatoo with its SS bolts
Tom kills Asher Sutton by stabbing him in the throat
Tom chokes Scottie after Agnes is kidnapped
Red cuts off the head of a kidnapper instead  of taking a phone photo

 

That's very interesting, Tuxie400! I never really thought about there being so many neck-related issues. Not to mention Fitch's comment to Red that he always liked him, even though he was a pain in his neck.

Well, I haven't gotten any further with the re-watch since the show came back on. But I was thinking about the love triangle, the Fulcrum, the Fire and all of that stuff. We haven't heard much about the Cabal since Red bought into the organization and he's forged an uneasy alliance with Laurel Hitchen. But I was thinking about what might have possibly gone down way back when and these were some conclusions that I came to. Nothing super specific or detailed, because that's not super important. But there have been things tossed out there that seemed like loose ends to me. Anyway, here goes with trying to join them together.

Katarina Rostova, wife of wealthy Russian businessman Constantin Rostov is a KGB agent. He doesn't know this, but she uses his connections and status to seduce and betray foreign diplomats and intelligence agents, getting them to reveal secrets. One of her assignments is an up and coming, but still somewhat junior, naval intelligence officer named Raymond Reddington. She seduces him, gets some info out of him, and then makes a huge mistake - she falls in love with him. She also finds herself pregnant. The mystery is still how this was allowed to happen, because, after all a pregnant spy whose mission is seduction and info-gathering is pretty much sidelined if this happens. This is where there could be more to this than we know, maybe she was set up? Maybe this is where the warrior gene and super spy creation comes into the story - who knows. But that's beside the point. I suspect that she planned to end the pregnancy but that Constantin found out and was so very happy to become a father that if she had tried to do anything about it she would have raised his suspicions and blown her cover. Maybe the confirmation of her pregnancy was "leaked" to him by someone who wanted her to keep the baby, for whatever reasons. At some point Constantin discovered her affair with Reddington. I think that was the "gun in your mouth" confrontation. Katarina was forced to break off their affair. Probably to protect her cover, but it could also have been that Reddington discovered her KGB-ness. If he felt betrayed by her, knowing how he reacts to betrayal, we can only guess his reaction. But he wouldn't have killed her because she was the mother of his child. Maybe they had a very uneasy relationship for those first four years, Red said that Constantin was gone a lot, so maybe he was able to see Masha, regardless of what his relationship was with Katarina at the time. But one thing we can probably be sure of is that if Red gave up any secrets to Katarina, then he was a traitor, unwittingly or not. And her bosses knew it. Maybe they were continuing to blackmail him. If his superiors found out it would cost him his career at the very least and his freedom and life at the most. And who knows what would happen to his family and friends? The Cold War was ending as the Soviet Union was beginning to fall apart. I'm sure that was hard on him as some fallout could be the revelation of his treason, Katarina could be killed or imprisoned and who knows what might happen to Masha/Liz? So he decided to hatch a plan to fix everything. He had help. I think it was Fitch who helped him. He was either his superior or a mentor of sorts. I think Red confided in him about the whole mess. It's clear that Fitch had something to do with the creation of The Fulcrum, which was basically a blackmail file. Perhaps The Fulcrum was created for Red to use for this plan, but probably not, he just knew about it, maybe he even helped create it. He would need something big in order to get the KGB to leave them alone and we know The Cabal has Russian members. So he obtained The Fulcrum to use to get Elizabeth to safety. Maybe Katarina as well. When he told her the plan, she balked. Told him he had to give it back or they'd kill him. She still loved him, I think. He said they'd kill him if he gave it back, so that makes me think he stole it after all. They argued. Masha heard the commotion and picked up Red's gun, which shouldn't have been anywhere that a child could get it; she wanted to protect her mom from this man that she didn't know was her father, so she shot him. I don't know how the rest of Fire Night plays out, but somehow a fire starts, men come to search for The Fulcrum probably? Does Katarina leave with them or just gets the heck outta there? Liz remembers a man guiding her out of the burning house. Who really did what is still not fully clear. But I believe that Katarina is sure that Red is dead. And I think she continues to believe that for the rest of her life. In "Cape May", Red's imaginary Katarina murmurs something about it's not the way he died or that he died, it's what was said before he died. I take that to mean that they never spoke again after that big argument. And she died without them ever resolving that was how they parted. He gets out of the house somehow and is out of commission for awhile. He probably can't contact her even if he wants to. She grows more and more despondent. "The man she loved killed by the child she adored."  I think she goes to Cape May to kill both herself and Masha. I think Red tracks them down but arrives too late to save them both and can only save one, as he said, his Hobson's Choice, so he saves Liz. I think it's after that happens that he shows up at Sam's house with her. Things are really messed up now. Red's plan didn't work and only made things far worse. The next year is probably spent really messed up until he is forced to disappear after being exposed as a traitor. He probably has no choice but to embrace that as his new "cover". We know he comes to some sort of agreement with Fitch. So is he operating on his own after that or is he part of some other longterm operation? These are the things we won't know until the end.

I know this still leaves a lot of loose ends, but I am thinking this might put some of the pieces together as to how Red got to where he ended up. Wherever that really is. I've tried to put it together with actual dialogue we've been given. And with what might have happened to cause Fire Night. Did Katarina really commit suicide? This scenario assumes that she did. The only thing that seems to show that is the locket that the beachcomber found on the beach and Red bought from him. It was old and scratched up. And his soliloquy about suicide. I think Red has been sure all this time that she did die. Maybe the Rostova glasnost file revealed something else to him. "It's worse than I thought". I'd like to think that Red told Kirk that Katarina was still alive, but again that's something we won't know until the end, if we ever find out.

Anyway, just had a break in the action to finally be able to write this out, but I've been thinking about it since the fall finale.

edit - Forgot to put in the part where Red took Elizabeth. That had to be before the Fire. Maybe that was what precipitated his argument with Katarina. He took her, Katarina followed them, Constantin came home and found them gone. Katarina had probably figured that life with Constantin was safer than running for her and Masha so Red was forced to take Masha in order to protect her from what was coming. We know now that Fitch was The Decembrist and played a big part in destabilizing the Soviet Union, so it's possible that Red knew what was coming and that forced his hand and doomed his plan. Maybe Constantin was the one that saved Liz from the Fire. She would think of him as her father at that time. The Fire memories have always been confused as to who did what. 

Last edited by Honey West (1/14/2017 11:30 pm)

Cool, lara1, looking forward to your feedback. No, not the leaf blower this time. LOL! Just some random ideas that recently coalesced into some sort of narrative form. And needed to get some feedback on it.

Honey West - I re-read this today and it does make a lot of sense given what we know.  If only we knew more of the background of Red and Fitch that might have filled in some more blanks....

So that's all if Red is really Red and Liz is really Liz.....

I have just re-read the Red as imposter article that Tuxie400 posted on another thread and replied to that.  Another thing that occurred to me in reading that article and going back over some of the old episodes is that Red actually does say and do things that are paternal or paternal-like while at the same time, indicating that he is not her father, as he talks about him/of him.    Unless he is talking about himself in the third person.  I have to say I am still on the fence as to whether I think Red is really her father.  I probably shouldn't be, given what Red said to Kirk in 4.08, but that wasn't straightforward either.  LOL

Anyway putting my theories of "Red is not Red" to the side, your notes are a really thought out and plausible narrative.   Thanks for sharing with us!

Last edited by lara1 (1/15/2017 5:20 pm)