The Blacklist Refugees » Lillie and Lizzie

Tatiana · 4/14/2018 8:44 pm

When we finally meet "Jennifer" aka Lillian May Roth she is nothing like we would have expected. Pasty, sullen, down-trodden, almost the exact opposite of her sister, Elizabeth Keen.

I opened this discussion because I think there will be more insight into Red and Liz and the backstory to the 1980s.

Lilly and Lizzy: Odile and Odette

I'm secretly hoping there will be a scar on Lilly's left wrist.

As a poster on this board has pointed out, Jennifer's current name is Lillian May Roth and Lillian Roth was a very talented woman who was pushed into stardom at a very early age (6) along with her sister. She had a troubled life.

Last notable comment: the name "Roth" means Red.

Funny, huh?

lara1 · 4/14/2018 10:04 pm

Thanks Tatiana. I had not made the Roth/Red connection, really intriguing esp when added to the rest.

lara1 · 4/14/2018 10:35 pm

This has so intrigued me that i did a bit more research. Seems that Lillian, in addition to referring to a lily, also means pure. "Pure/Red" LOL

but, most interestingly, as many of us have thought, the name is said to have originally been a diminutive of, or pet name, for Elizabeth.

Last edited by lara1 (4/14/2018 10:36 pm)

Tatiana · 4/15/2018 12:27 am

Cool, lara! I completely missed that.

Eastcoast · 4/15/2018 1:15 am

I looked these up after I saw her. May is also a short form for Mary which is connected to Masha.
I love looking up names. They are all connected!

lara1 · 4/15/2018 9:42 am

So - we may have confirmed the meaning of Flora Segunda......Liz was the second "Elizabeth" - in a way.

Eastcoast - that is interesting. And Mary, generally is connected to Christmas. The two girls in fire house, maybe?

Last edited by lara1 (4/15/2018 9:43 am)

Tuxie400 · 4/15/2018 9:49 am

lara1 wrote:
This has so intrigued me that i did a bit more research. Seems that Lillian, in addition to referring to a lily, also means pure. "Pure/Red" LOL

but, most interestingly, as many of us have thought, the name is said to have originally been a diminutive of, or pet name, for Elizabeth.

I hadn't thought of Lilly being a nickname for Elizabeth, but it is. I remember that Queen Elizabeth was called "Lilybet" by her family as a child.

Tuxie400 · 4/15/2018 9:51 am

Eastcoast wrote:
I looked these up after I saw her. May is also a short form for Mary which is connected to Masha.
I love looking up names. They are all connected!

Curiouser and curiouser.

Tatiana · 4/15/2018 9:54 am

Lilybet, now that is interesting.

Lara, you've been right all along about Flora Segunda!

Last edited by Tatiana (4/15/2018 9:54 am)

lara1 · 4/15/2018 10:21 am

Jennifer - I went back and looked at that, since its been so long, I forgot.

More white imagery:
Jennifer variously is said to mean white enchantress, white phantom, white shadow, or the pale, or fair, one.

I know maybe last season we ran across some blacklisters and others whose names translated to "the fair" "the pale". But I don't remember what those were - included one I believe who was "Le blanc".

also interesting that the name derives form Guineviere, King Arthur's mythical queen.

Tuxie400 - good catch, thanks for remembering that.

Last edited by lara1 (4/15/2018 10:22 am)

Tuxie400 · 4/15/2018 10:53 am

lara1 wrote:
Jennifer - I went back and looked at that, since its been so long, I forgot.

More white imagery:
Jennifer variously is said to mean white enchantress, white phantom, white shadow, or the pale, or fair, one.

I know maybe last season we ran across some blacklisters and others whose names translated to "the fair" "the pale". But I don't remember what those were - included one I believe who was "Le blanc".

also interesting that the name derives form Guineviere, King Arthur's mythical queen.

Tuxie400 - good catch, thanks for remembering that.

You are thinking about Elise LeBlanc, the owner of the dance school in the Swan Lake Ballet.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (4/15/2018 10:54 am)

lara1 · 4/15/2018 11:02 am

ooh yes, another Elizabeth - the pale. So maybe Jennifer is/was ballerina girl. though the age doesn't hold up. She would have only been 4 in 1987. Well in any event its another Liz and "the pale" link.....

But I think there was a blacklister too, I remember looking into it....I think! LOL It was an episode where maybe they changed the title from the blacklister's name to another title. Maybe.

Tatiana · 4/15/2018 11:06 am

Lara - I remember the discussion but not the specifics.

Tatiana · 4/15/2018 11:16 am

Tuxie, you were the first one to show us about Lillian Roth, I did a little more reading and she had a very tumultuous life, battling alcoholism and mental illness with lots of hospitalizations.
She also was molested at age 6 by the man who painted her as a statue, the trademark for a picture company.

Eastcoast · 4/18/2018 10:36 pm

We have said a lot about her appearance of dullness.
Maybe whatever she saw or happened had a bad effect on her. For all we know she was in the closet with Liz and was traumatized. I know people like that. They really just don't want anything to do with their family's drama and do anything they can to avoid it. A friend told me one time that whenever she sees her family it's just a big reminder of all the crap she saw growing up.

Tuxie400 · 4/19/2018 8:13 am

Eastcoast wrote:
We have said a lot about her appearance of dullness.
Maybe whatever she saw or happened had a bad effect on her. For all we know she was in the closet with Liz and was traumatized. I know people like that. They really just don't want anything to do with their family's drama and do anything they can to avoid it. A friend told me one time that whenever she sees her family it's just a big reminder of all the crap she saw growing up.

The more I think about it, the more I think Jennifer might have been one of the girls in the closet on Fire NIght.

lara1 · 4/19/2018 8:54 am

Well you all know I'm one of the people who think that there were 2 girls on fire night, and 2 in the closet. Was Liz talking to herself or was that just a clever illusion it was actually Lillian. Although I'm not sure that works entirely because that would mean that it was Lillian who shot the person on fire night, because that person did seem to be the same person. But nevertheless I think there were two girls.

Last edited by lara1 (4/19/2018 8:55 am)

Tatiana · 4/19/2018 9:39 am

So we have:

Lizzy Masha (form of MaryMaria in Russian)
and
Lilly May (form of Mary/Marie)

Clearly, the writers/producers planned it that way. So the question is are there really two girls? Are there two girls who had the same traumatic experience(s) as a child but had a different response? Or are they the same person but we are seeing two different ways their life would have turned out?

Tuxie400 · 4/19/2018 2:50 pm

Tatiana wrote:
So we have:

Lizzy Masha (form of MaryMaria in Russian)
and
Lilly May (form of Mary/Marie)

Clearly, the writers/producers planned it that way. So the question is are there really two girls? Are there two girls who had the same traumatic experience(s) as a child but had a different response? Or are they the same person but we are seeing two different ways their life would have turned out?

I think it could be either. Both are interesting ideas.

4/21/2018 11:56 am

I saw on Fiona Dourif's instagram today some pictures she posted from her time on the BL set the last couple of months. So it seems like Jennifer's probably sticking to the show the rest of the season. I saw Aly has posted screenshots of the photos she posted (which are just selfies in various rooms) on her page.