Brittany - I really wonder if Kaplan didn't really mean to set Tom and Red against each other. She could have just given Liz the key to the bus locker, or had Dennison take the suitcase directly to Liz. She purposely told Red what she had done before she jumped. In my mind, she put Tom at risk from Red that way. She could have just told Red she had a contingency without spelling out what it was.

Tom's big blunder was meeting Liz at the apartment. He was smart enough to keep Agnes with Rosa, and he should have had Liz meet him somewhere else. I don't blame him for not giving her the suitcase right away.

I agree Red warned Tom twice and tried to help him elude Garvey. That's why I don't give Red a higher percentage of culpability. I think Red's lying to Liz and Tom is major - especially when he can't formulate a reason for it. (And I blame Red for keeping me up at nights worrying about the damn suitcase. LOL )

But really no character is responsible since they're not real. It's 100 percent the writers
 

I blame Red and Kaplan equally for my stress over that stupid suitcase.  Lol

We can even blame the writers because Redemption gave Ryan the leading man taste and then it was hard to come back to not leading man role so he was ready to move on (maybe he would have died anyway.  Who knows). 

While I think Kaplan was reckless I do think her intention was to hurt Red and get Liz to walk away.  She was willing to take her to the suitcase if Liz hadn’t gotten out.  But even then I think the danger would have still occurred because Liz probably would have still done the DNA check in CODIS to be sure.   Depending on the outcome of the secret, I could change my tune on what I think Kaplan’s intentions were.

Brittany - IDK, i don't think Kaplan was taking Liz to the bus depot locker to get the suitcase.  I think it (the suitcase) was her fail safe backstop plan.  then she kind of made Liz choose, Kaplan or Red; or, the truth or Red.  And Liz chose Red, not the truth.  So Kaplan sending it to her anyway (via the suitcase via Tom) kind of violated what Liz wanted.  That's why I said in my earlier post about Kaplan playing "God" in a way because it was her way or no way, even if that was what Liz didn't want, as was demonstrated over and over.

Anyway back to the car ride, I think Kaplan was taking liz somewhere else.  Maybe it was back to Tansi Farm, maybe somewhere else.  That's the interesting part, to me.

What is everyone's opinion on the numbers of the Blacklisters?  Do you think they matter, in terms of threat level to Red?  In relationship to the overall reason he came into Liz's life?  In ranking of who can give Liz answers to her past?  Random? 

I ask because this season we have had Ian Garvey come in at #13, the Capricorn Killer was #19, and there is another one in episode 5.18 that is apparently #23.    I think it's interesting that Ian Garvey falls in between the Decembrist and Alexander Kirk, and the Capricorn Killer falls in between Scottie Hargrave and Luther Braxton. 

Further observations about these recent numbers and the numbers around them because there appear to be lots of connections to Liz's past, with some of Red mixed in.  Lots of connections to the fire and Liz's early years/1990s. 
12-The Decembrist- Helps Berlin's daughter escape (1990), which led to Berlin believing Red was responsible and targeting Liz to get to him.  This is also the episode where we get major hints that Tom worked for Red and it's the first time (I believe) that we hear the term "The Fulcrum" (fire). 
13-Ian Garvey- wants to know the answers to the bones and why they are dead, etc. Kills Tom, attacks Liz, makes Red's life miserable.  More to come on him.  
14. Alexander Kirk (the whole arc)- reveals Liz is actually alive, kidnaps Liz and Agnes, KR's ex-husband, believed he was Liz's father.  Exposes her to a home she lived in as a child where she has the first coherent memory of her mother, finds her mother's journal, learns of Red and KR's affair and that Red was the one who abducted her.  Red admits to Kirk that he is Liz's father, but she doesn't know that. Red whispers a secret into Kirk's ear that leads to him not being killed.  (all kinds of 1980s/1990s connections)

18-Scottie Hargrave (whole arc)- revealed as Tom's mother, revealed that Tom was kidnapped at 3 (1980s) Red and Howard were associated at one point, leads to the reveal that Alexander Kirk was the one trying to kidnap her. She introduces Red to the senator he blackmails to get to Kirk.  The same Senator later becomes president and Red uses blackmail in season 4 to get Liz a pardon and reinstated at the FBI. 
19- The Capricorn Killer- a cold case, which we learned Liz obsesses about.  The real killer is dead, her therapist is revealed to be behind his death.  She allows the therapist to escape in order to get reinstated and puts her on the back burner for later use as an asset.  Also gives off some maternal vibes with Liz. 
21- Luther Braxton- obsessed with finding the Fulcrum, knows some about the night of the fire, uses memory doctor to get Liz to recall the night of the fire.  Liz's first big memories of her parents. Liz learns her memories of the fire have not just been suppressed but modified as well. 

 

Last edited by Brittany (3/21/2018 11:33 am)

And it just hit me that Ian Garvey is #13, which is considered unlucky by those who tend to be superstitious. 

Tuxie400 wrote:

I used to think the Blacklist numbering had some significance but later decided a lot of it was random. I did think it strange The Capricorn Killer was listed so high, especially since the real Capricorn Killer seemed to figure into the episode only in a small way. The real Blacklister was Dr. Fulton, but I suspect she will get her own number later.

Dembe was placed high on the list, but then it turned out he should never have been on the Blacklist at all.

I definitely think some of them are random, particularly the ones that are more blacklisters of opportunity than planning (like the Forecaster)  And there are people who were never supposed to be on the list (Dembe, Alexander Kirk, likely Kaplan), though they get lower numbers. For the most part, there are fairly significant connections to Red/Liz/KR in the first 25.  I've often wondered if different sections of the list signify different areas in which there is danger/importance?   I hope they eventually tell us that....*runs off to the questions we want answered thread*

Brittany wrote:

I'm wondering how they are going to do the Ian Garvey take down in terms of a number, especially since they already used his number when Tom died and we didn't know his name except for the episode title. 

I wonder if Ian Garvey, like so many Blacklist characters, won't have started out in life with a different name. And that other name will be the name of the take down episode.
 

Or perhaps he will be part of a bigger organization and taking him out is the start?   Maybe they even go with the Nash Syndicate, since they are working for Garvey? 

I have kind of equated the blacklist with the FBIs top 10 list (or maybe the top 12, LOL).  That is, I'm not sure there are correlations beyond the top 10.  I don't know how the FBI list works other than the top 10 - if there even is a list - it would be a lot of administrative work to be constantly re-adjusting any additional numbers to that.

I did a post of lists in the parallels -

Red's Blacklist
The Courier list
5.04 - Endling - the holding list (Post Office)
5.10 - the sanctions list, the accounts list
also the witsec list of course.    Not sure that it means anything other than there are overlapping ideas of a list.

Last edited by lara1 (3/21/2018 1:30 pm)