The Blacklist Refugees » Redorina?!?!?

Tuxie400 · 3/04/2018 11:48 am

Brittany wrote:
I have always been convinced she was his wife. The interactions between them felt genuine like a guilty, ex husband who walked out and an angry ex wife who hates him to a degree for what he did to her life. They both expressed concern for Jennifer, even if she wasn’t Red’s biological child I believe he cared for her.

I agree that their interactions seem like a guilty ex-husband and an angry ex-wife. But something with them isn't as it seems. And I don't know exactly what.

lara1 · 3/04/2018 11:48 am

Well, I still think Carla was a cover wife, or something else like "real Red"'s wife. Red is capable of showing great affection for those who have been loyal to him (Carla kept her bargain never "told" on Red or Liz, about whatever) but whom have suffered as a result. He has held Dembe's face in his hands, and even Stratos, I believe. And Frank was watching.

Carla speaks to Liz about "Reddington" entering her life as if he walked into and out of it abruptly, not as though they had a long relationship as man and wife. She cuts off Red very quickly when he starts to talk about the past, and speaks of Carla REddington as though she were a different person. Of course, there could be other reasons for all of this, and Naomi may have felt that she truly is no longer the person she once was. But to me, she purposely changed the direction of that conversation.

of course I never write off anything in this show. So, she could indeed have been current REd's "wife".

Tuxie400 · 3/04/2018 3:37 pm

lara1 - All good points about Naomi. I also thought it was weird she never addressed Red by name - just as Sam didn't.

Eastcoast · 3/05/2018 1:07 am

I still do not see anything odd by not using someone's name. I hardly ever do it.
I have addressed comments by the username on this board more than I have used them with those I know in everyday life. lol

lara1 · 3/05/2018 10:42 am

Tuie400 - nor did Richard, the admiral. With Sam and the Admiral, you'd think they would, after not having seen him for several decades.

Tuxie400 · 3/05/2018 1:37 pm

Eastcoast wrote:
I still do not see anything odd by not using someone's name. I hardly ever do it.
I have addressed comments by the username on this board more than I have used them with those I know in everyday life. lol

Good point! I don't use names very much with people I live or work with on a daily basis. But I do use names with people I haven't seen in a long time.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (3/05/2018 1:42 pm)

Tuxie400 · 3/05/2018 2:34 pm

Top 11 Reasons I think Red is Katarina that don't involve things Kaplan said or Red refusing to say he's Liz's father.

1. Kirk's description of Katarina sounded just like Red to me:

Kirk: Unafraid, daring, being. I'd never seen anything like it. She had
Red: A joy for living.
Kirk: She was more alive than anyone I knew.

2. The Bethesda flat with all the Russian items seemed more like a place Katarina would live than Raymond Reddington. He takes that painting of a mother and child with the rich woman to the shipping container and other places he'.s lived. Red is still sticking Russian nesting dolls by his liquor. We know Katarina put similar nesting dolls in the time capsule.

3. If Red were the man who put Masha in the closet on Fire Night, he would know the fulcrum was in the bunny. Katarina was the one who didn't know where the fulcrum was.

4. In her journal Katarina writes how much she likes dress shopping with Masha. Early on in Season 1 Red wanted to buy Liz a dress. "You'd look positively radiant in a Guayabera dress. I know a little shop in Reston."

5. Katarina said in her journal she liked to imagine Masha's wedding, wondering what kind of man Masha would marry and who would walk her down the aisle. We know Red attended Liz's first wedding to Tom.

6. We know Katarina loved to dance. Red is shown dancing with Liz in 5.01 to the tune Don't You Forget About Me. He also expressed a desire to go to Jazzercize in Season 4 with Samar.

7. Red loves games - Chess, Colorku, Bananas, Celebrity. Red fondly ooked at the Take 12 game in Katarina's trunk at Dom's, as though he had played it.

8. In Season 1, Red is shown in a swing. In Season 2 we get the photo with Katarina and Masha in the swing. In Season 3, Liz sees and remember the swing at the Summer Palace.

9. In the Summer Palace memory of Katarina, she is wearing aviator style glasses with amber lenses, similar to Red's.

10. Red's line to Dom: I'm sorry I wasn't the person you wanted me to be.

11. In The Vehm, Red tells Liz's attacker, "I'm a violent man. I've taken on a life that requires it." (Could work with any imposter theory).

Last edited by Tuxie400 (3/05/2018 6:07 pm)

lara1 · 3/05/2018 5:04 pm

Tuxie400 wrote:
Eastcoast wrote:
I still do not see anything odd by not using someone's name. I hardly ever do it.
I have addressed comments by the username on this board more than I have used them with those I know in everyday life. lol

Good point! I don't use names very much with people I live or work with on a daily basis. But I do use names with people I haven't seen in a long time.

Tuxie400 - I agree. Quite recently, I randomly ran into two people that I had not seen in decades. In one instance, I sort of recognized them, asked them their name, and they repeated mine. In the other it was reversed. But people tend to say the names, if only to re-confirm their understanding that the person really is who they think they are. Like, you think its so and so, but you're both checking to make sure its right. So, neither the Admiral nor Sam do that. Maybe it was not to give away a plot line, maybe it was nothing.

Last edited by lara1 (3/05/2018 5:05 pm)

Tatiana · 3/05/2018 6:55 pm

This is a really good list, Tuxie. In so many respects, the Redarina theory answers a lot of questions.

I've been watching the episodes with Naomi/Carla over again and zipping through to the relevant scenes. This time I really felt that the relationship between Red and Carla was genuine. She was horrified when the FBI came to her home and she said, 'he's back, isn't he?' because his very presence in her life meant she and those she loved would be in grave danger (and she was right, Berlin was after her). I felt that her anger had more to do with this than any animus between them.

So it is no wonder that she hauled off and gave him a hard right to the jaw. At least by the way they played it out, they looked like they had a history and they looked like they'd been through a lot. This time when she said, 'Carla Reddington was an ... housewife..." it seemed like it was more as a show for Frank; don't worry Frank, I have no feelings for this guy and never did.

But that wasn't true. Carla and Raymond were married, they were happy for a while, then his work life intruded into their life. What did Raymond have to do in order to be counter intelligence?

So I compare this to all the points you list above and I go back to, well, he must be Redarina.

Jon Bokenkamp said something recently about how they have the best fans in all of tv universe. I hope he really believes it and doesn't disappoint with the finale. If there are only more questions and no real answers I think we'll all boycott his work! lol!

Tuxie400 · 3/06/2018 12:24 am

Tatiana - Thanks for your feedback about the list. The Redarina theory answers some questions. But there are sticky issues like Carla/Naomi.

Eastcoast · 3/06/2018 2:01 am

I have thought and thought but I cannot find anyway for me to fit Carla/Naomi into that theory.

lara1 · 3/06/2018 10:23 am

Hi Tuxie400, I liked your list. Jazzercise was a good catch - exercise devolved from dance. That's kind of a 70s/80s throwback too - I remember the VHS tapes that came out! LOL.

This could also go with my preferred theory, LOL. Particularly the scene at the beginning of the series where at the embassy Red dances with Liz who is wearing a RED dress, as her plus one, and he says to her, "just be yourself" something like that, as he spins her off. That scene is also paralleled in Redemption, with Scottie int he bright red dress and Tom in a tux, again at an embassy. And Liz wore shaded aviator glasses in one scene, and one scene only, I believe, in the series.

Your list is interesting and well thought out.

lara1 · 3/06/2018 10:26 am

Oh yes, meant to add, its interesting how we never see KR's/woman's face in what would be the most potentially telling clips - the swing photo and the home movies. That could also work symbolically, in the Rederina theory.

3/06/2018 10:27 am

Can someone explain to me why the 70s/80s references have anything to do with imposter/redarina theory? Regardless of whether Red is the real deal or some sort of imposter, he has been alive for about the same amount of time. He wasn't frozen and just reappeared 20 years into the future with no clue what was happening (outside of his own choosing not to know).

Tuxie400 · 3/06/2018 10:29 am

Eastcoast - I actually have three different ideas for making Carla and Jennifer fit because I have a very vivid imagination. But at this point, I don't want to tell what they are since they would seem like pure fiction, and I'm still working them out in my head. Each can be linked loosely as parallels to things we've already seen in the show.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (3/06/2018 10:30 am)

lara1 · 3/06/2018 10:40 am

Brittany wrote:
Can someone explain to me why the 70s/80s references have anything to do with imposter/redarina theory? Regardless of whether Red is the real deal or some sort of imposter, he has been alive for about the same amount of time. He wasn't frozen and just reappeared 20 years into the future with no clue what was happening (outside of his own choosing not to know).

Brittany - good question, LOL. I'm not sure the references link to the imposter theory specifically, for me, they are a theme I am trying to work out. At first, I put it down to Red's character, liking 8MM movies, records, and such. But then we have things like Kaplan with the cassette tape walkman and Berlin with the polaroid. For me, it's a theme that keeps cropping up, but I don't yet know what it means. Not sure if anyone else has any ideas.

Last edited by lara1 (3/06/2018 10:40 am)

Tatiana · 3/06/2018 11:26 am

Time travel.

Hey, it's as good a guess as any :-)
TBL uses a lot of fringe science, right? I just posted a link to technology which can actually read your mind. Yes, it really does.

Makes sense, there's certainly a lot of ghost references.
I am seriously just kidding.

lara1 · 3/06/2018 11:34 am

Tatiana - LOL well one place even I won't go is time travel.

3/06/2018 11:39 am

I’m fine with fringe science in the show but not science fiction. That’s where Alias went wrong in my opinion.

Tatiana · 3/06/2018 11:49 am

Think of it in the context of quantum physics/bilocation and add the creativity of the Blacklist creators and you have something that can be believable.

Multiple personality disorder cannot be proven through the scientific method. Here's an article from Scientific American which shows that DID and its proponents are may be on the outskirts of science.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-people-have-multiple-personalities/