The Blacklist Refugees » Redorina?!?!?

Tatiana · 2/26/2018 3:16 pm

Tuxie400 wrote:
Tatiana - I thought Dembe was talking about Red obliterating Katarina as a woman by taking on the male persona. In a way, Rederina would be Katarina committing gender suicide. That's what crossed my mind the first time I heard it.

That makes sense.

I've been thinking about the Blacklister who was forced by his father to become a woman because he was gay. That father was very angry at the young man and that's what caused him to force the transition.

In Dom's case, I don't understand why he would be so angry at Red/Redarina? What would be lost by that? That he wouldn't be able to see his granddaughter any more? What else?

lara1 · 2/26/2018 3:35 pm

HI folks, all really interesting comments. So much pointing one way or the other. It feels to me like the writers may have even been tapping into some of the fan theories, maybe even the mention of the eyes. (LOL)

And we had Navarro's eye and didn't Red make a kind of funny comment in the Invisible Hand that something was functioning as the eye of the hand? LOL then we have Dom commenting on Liz's eyes.

In some ways, I feel like there is so much piling up now that they keep adding to, now to what in some ways are so obvious (penis jokes, liposcupture in some unspecific nether region), that it is all a red herring. Because, by some counts, its becoming very obvious (at least that the clues are there, whether they be fake planted clues or not), that this is a possibility. But with a least one season left, I'm not sure they would reveal that so soon. Which is what they would be building to now, if these were all "real" clues.

So it may be to just draw us down one path while then surprising us with something we never saw coming for the season finale. Like a magic trick - having us focus on one thing then presto, its another.

Maybe. So many things can be taken more than one way.

Last edited by lara1 (2/26/2018 3:37 pm)

Tuxie400 · 2/26/2018 4:36 pm

Tatiana - Dom may have totally opposed Katarina taking such a drastic step. I can't see my own father understanding or ever accepting it if my sister or I had a gender change (not that we ever considered one). But he was a real Archie Bunke- type guy. A lot of people in that age range can't deal with gender transitions. My husband is 18 years older than me. He doesn't watch The Blacklist but finds the whole Redarina idea repugnant. He says if it turns out to be that, he doesn't want to know. LOL

The other thing was in following Raymond, Katarina burned ties with the KGB. She put not only Masha, but probably Dom and any other family members in danger because of what she had done for love. Dom might have seen that as selfish. We know Kirk had to change his name afterward. Who knows what other collateral damage ensued? Did something happen to Mrs.Dom or one of Katarina's siblings?

If Liz finds out her father, the real Raymond Reddington, was in the suitcase, how does she ever trust Red again as an imposter.? And, if he tells her he was once her mother, will she be able to wrap her head around that? Does Red think she can't forgive a mother who backed out of her life and became a violent, powerful man? Even if it was just to stay alive and to keep her safe? I can see how Red thinks it's complicated. His sole mission in life is to protect Liz. But I think Dembe and Dom don't think Liz finding out will be that bad.

Tuxie400 · 2/26/2018 4:40 pm

Laura - As far I'm concerned, the endgame could definitely be something else. My Redarina meter is at 65%. That leaves 35% of wiggle room. LOL

I think both The Endling and Travel Agency episodes play into this Redarina theme - what extreme measures would a mother take for her offspring?. In Nirah's case it was committing suicide to provide a heart so her child could live. For Eleanor it was avenging her children's death and killing everyone involved, including her own husband.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (2/26/2018 4:44 pm)

Tatiana · 2/26/2018 4:46 pm

Good points, Tuxie. It also gives more meaning to Dom's exclamation, "You selfish prick!"
hahaha!
There has to be a bigger issue though, even though Redarina is a pretty big reveal.

Tuxie400 · 2/26/2018 4:58 pm

Tatiana - You want bigger issues than those? OK. I think Rederina either blames herself for real Reddington's death, or, if he betrayed her, she's embarrassed she ever trusted him and put her daughter at risk. I don't know that Reddington wasn't the "bad man" she told Masha he was after the fire.

lara1 · 2/26/2018 5:10 pm

Tuxie400 wrote:
Tatiana - You want bigger issues than those? OK. I think Rederina either blames herself for real Reddington's death, or, if he betrayed her, she's embarrassed she ever trusted him and put her daughter at risk. I don't know that Reddington wasn't the "bad man" she told Masha he was after the fire.

Tuxie400 - well yes all of that is certainly getting complicated, isn't it? I agree about the "bad man" comment - its one of those things that can be taken two ways - he really was a bad man, or KR, just trying to make her child recover from what had happened (if masha did indeed shoot someone). Just like Liz said her father gave her the scar - again that could've been an attempt by Sam to make her feel more positive about the scar - especially if, as a child, following memory manipulation, she had no idea how she got it (and maybe still does have no idea). It was a mark he gave her so she could feel "brave", something like that. but we don't know of course

Last edited by lara1 (2/26/2018 5:11 pm)

Tuxie400 · 2/26/2018 5:14 pm

lara1 - I agree with your take on the bad man comment and Sam's scar explanation. Both could very well be comments made to make little Liz feel better.

Tatiana · 2/26/2018 7:50 pm

Ok, just wondering. I looked back at the fire night dialogue recently. Katarina and Real Raymond argued. We have the transcript (some fan used high tech to get it!). In it, Katarina is mad at Raymond. She feels betrayed, as does he. Maybe she felt he was a bad man because he kidnapped Masha and caused all sorts of trouble.

Because of Raymond, her gig was up, her child was in danger, and everyone had to go into hiding.

Redarina sure does explain Cape May though.

Tuxie400 · 2/26/2018 10:46 pm

I'd sure love to know what that fire dialog is really about. Red told Liz her father took her, and her mother followed and wanted all of them to be a family. But that's not what the Fire Night dialog sounded like. Could it have been a con? With all the con games and ruses this season, I wonder.

lara1 · 2/26/2018 11:51 pm

I am glad we are all still friends after this lively discussion!

And I'll just throw it out there - remember when Kate told "Red" she loved him before leaping off the bridge? hmmm

But - having said that, if Red really was KR, and Kate was so devoted to KR, I just could not see Kate destroying him/her the way that she has. Unless she really was insane. Then yet again, some of what Kate says to Red in those final episodes could have been discussions with KR.

But - why would KR blow up the Tacoma Park house? Who is ballerina girl? And why are there so many references to using, and even using, antiquated (late 70s/80s) technology.

LOL. I sure hope that the suitcase bones give us some clue.

Tuxie400 · 2/27/2018 12:06 am

lara1 - Kate's first priority was Liz, and then Agnes after she was born. I think she saw Red change from the person she had known to becoming increasingly violent. He had turned Liz's life upside down and caused her to be at risk. Personally, she felt in Red's shooting her that he "put her down like a dog." Why wouldn't her feelings change?. And bsides the writer's needed a story engine for Season 4. LOL

Tatiana · 2/27/2018 12:33 am

Tuxie400 wrote:
Tatiana - I never believed Luli was Red's girlfirend. Remember what Red told Ressler: "She hates men, and especially cops." I think Luli in that shirt was a red herring. She was playing a part.

Completely forgot about that one. Good point.

Tuxie400 · 2/27/2018 12:38 am

I do feel this is the only safe place in the fandom to have such a discussion. Thank you all for letting me have it. I do know there are things in earlier seasons that seem to negate this theory. And, as I've said, Redarina may be the biggest red herring of all. But there are so many things in Season 4 that don't make sense to me otherwise.

I've considered the Mommy theory off and on since the middle of Season 1 when Red said no to the father question. There were so many things to me right from the pilot that were clues. "You got rid of your highlights." There aren't any men in my life who know the term for that hair coloring technique. Or who know the color rules for who would be a winter and who would be an autumn. The men I know don't talk about the G Spot, pretty blouses, or clutches. Noticing the changes that signal pregnancy sounds more like a woman who's been through the experience.

Red has a lot of character traits that are displayed more often by females than males, according to psychologists: verbal skills, sociability, empathy, the ability to remember names and faces not only of his contacts, but of their wives and family members. From a linguistic standpoint, personal anecdotes like Red tells are more of a female thing than a male thing. His enthusiastic way of speaking and the talking with his hands remind me more of women I've met than men. And his emotional response to Liz has always struck me as more of mother's response than a father's - especially his reaction when she "died."

Eastcoast · 2/27/2018 12:45 am

Tuxie, I agree. That is the one reason I joined this board and I do Not belong to any other. Although I really need a tumblr account! lol I could put my pics on there. It would solve my problem of having all these pics I have.
lara1, please don't ever read anything I say with any kind of tone. I am usually saying this stuff as I type it with a smile and a lol here and there.

lara1 · 2/27/2018 12:45 am

Tuxie400 - I know what you are saying, and it comes in waves. Like all the things you mentioned in Season 1. It seemed to take a backseat in late seasons 2 and a lot of 3, who knows.

Of course Red/KR might be the same person in another way as well - MP. but as you know that is my pet subject.

lara1 · 2/27/2018 12:47 am

Hey all, we all come with our own perspectives and its fun to hash it out - pros and cons!

Tatiana · 2/27/2018 12:50 am

Despite the medical limitations, I agree that Redarina theory answers a lot of conflicting questions. Are you my father, No. Elizabeth is my daughter. I mean, right there...

So I think it's fine to explore it. Just because it may stretch reality a bit doesn't mean a prime time wouldn't use it.

It reminds me of a riddle we used to share when we were little back in the 70s:

A father and his son are in a car accident, badly injured, and immediately driven to the ER.
The child requires surgery so the surgeon is called in and preps. Upon entering the ER the surgeon looks down and gasps, "I can't do this surgery. This is my son!"

Back then, a lot of us were stymied. Who could that surgeon be? These days no one would be thrown off because we all know women doctors, surgeons, engineers, etc. So a transgender story would have the same result.
Are you my father? No
Elizabeth is my daughter.

Pretty interesting. I have to say, though that since TBL's inception, there has been a lot more high visibility transgendered individuals who have made their story well known. So maybe this end game would not be as shocking as they thought.

Tatiana · 2/27/2018 12:53 am

Yay us! Personally, I'm open to different ideas and following the clues where they lead us. But I think the good thing about this board is that we've avoided fan fiction and I put 'shipping' in that category.

Eastcoast · 2/27/2018 12:56 am

Now, I just thought of something a few minutes ago and wanted to put it out there before I forget it like so many other things. (this is why EC is so tired, up all night on here) lol

I keep thinking about Carla telling him that he needed to tell her and now we have Dom saying the same thing. At the time Carla said that Liz did not know Red was her father and we were tossing around on the other board if that is what she meant. Well, as far as we know, Dom does not know that Liz knows he is her father either? Maybe that is what he was talking about.
As far as Dembe, when he said what he said at that tree to Red, I took it that he had done something to her and she is in the suitcase and that is why they needed to find it. For me that had explained a bit of the Cape May comment about him telling KR he was sorry.