The Blacklist Refugees » Season 5 Fall/Winter Hiatus Discussions

Tuxie400 · 1/02/2018 4:27 pm

lara1 - Glad you are finding Wormwood interesting! I rewatched the fall finale at the end of November. It is hard to rewatch because it's so emotional.

lara1 · 2/20/2018 10:37 am

Eastcoast - thank you for posting the Cape May dialog on the site. I was just thinking, for no apparent reason, that Red does not recognize/know who KR is during most of their encounter, yet when he "wakes up" the next day, into reality, he still sees her, and, recognizes her. who knows if it means anything, though.....

lara1 · 2/20/2018 11:47 am

Tuxie400:

"About walking in the park that morning, we don't see everything Red does in a day. "

just continuing this here from the other thread. how true!

About the burn notice on Red, I have often thought that as well. He was betrayed by the CIA or other gov agency who then disavowed all knowledge of him etc. (whether or not he was a mole). I think that's what happened this season to the "fake CIA' guy, I forget the name of the episode. he'd been totally burned by the agency.

that's not an unusual plot device in thriller/spy type stories but I think the term "burn notice" was specifically used there for a reason. May only be another fire reference. I guess we'll see

Tuxie400 · 2/20/2018 12:33 pm

lara1 - Yes, a burn notice was at the heart of Brian Osterman's story in the Ilyas Surkov episode.

The CIA guy, Cox, said: "Brian Osterman was one of our own - one we no longer consider a trusted asset. He was part of a black-book operation tasked to ID threats to U.S. counterintelligence, but in '08 he broke from the Agency - and we issued a burn notice."

Osterman told Liz: "I was on board at first. Pretty soon it became clear the jobs we were doing, we weren't doing America's dirty work. We were doing Cox's. That he'd turned. Tried to plug the plug, but Cox discredited me and convinced our superiors to issue a burn notice."

That's where I got the idea of a burn notice being involved in Red's story.

lara1 · 2/20/2018 12:36 pm

Tuxie400 - could very well be. Red hung out to dry, sort of. there does seem to be an undercurrent where he was betrayed in some way in the past. why loyalty is so important to him. Its definitely possible IMO. As well as being a cool fire reference.

Tuxie400 · 2/20/2018 1:26 pm

I imagine most of you have seen the TV ads for the movie Red Sparrow, which debuts in theaters on March 2. I was alerted to it a few days ago by posts on other Blacklist forums. The Jennifer Lawrence character really does sound like Katarina. Here's a description of the movie from Forbes Magazine:

Based on an award-winning novel by Jason Matthews, a retired but long-serving CIA field operative, its story concerns Dominika Egorova (Jennifer Lawrence), a one-time prima ballerina of the Bolshoi Ballet. After a seeming accident has ended her career as a dancer, Egorova is recruited by her uncle (Matthias Schoenaerts), a high-ranking figure in Russian intelligence. He wants her to become the mistress of an oligarch distrusted by Putin's regime. The outcome of that episode -- which I will not reveal here -- leads to her assignment as a trainee at a spy school for Russian agents who serve as "honey pots," seducers used to blackmail influential Westerners. From there, Egorova is sent to Budapest, where she has been assigned to rope in Nate Nash (notice the aliteration of his name), a CIA agent who is the contact for a vital Russian mole, code-named Marvel (Oleander?). Will she do as she has been instructed by her trainers and try to persuade Nash to reveal the identity of the mole? Or will she betray the motherland and assist the cause of The West and freedom? Complicating this seemingly cliché set up is the fact that both Egorova and Nash know what her handlers have asked her to do and why they have sent her. That produces a surprisingly subtle relationship, something with echoes of the novels of John le Carré.

The movie is based on a 2013 novel by the same name. I bought the Audible version yesterday and started listening last night. The beginning chapters are more about Nate Nash, the 27-year-old counterintelligence officer, and his relationship with Marble, a double spy within Russian intelligence. Marble reminds me a lot of Dom. He decided to turn to the other side after the Soviets would not provide an oncologist for his wife, who subsequently died.

Check out the trailer for the movie, if you have not seen it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uWusAKhMrs

Last edited by Tuxie400 (2/20/2018 1:31 pm)

Tuxie400 · 2/20/2018 1:27 pm

lara1 - As for burn notice - you know a good fire reference ignites my interest.

Tatiana · 2/20/2018 2:46 pm

Red Sparrow - wow! That is crazy!!!

Tuxie you'll have to tell us more about it. It sounds like tit for tat the same as TBL. Interesting that the novel came out in 2013. I know the idea behind TBL was presented well before then, but there must be some kind of correlation? or Bokenkamp knew something of the storyline? Even the title, for pete's sakes! There's that color again and reference to a bird.

Tatiana · 2/20/2018 2:51 pm

So in the end, she cannot escape from them, they 'own' her. Maybe it was the same with Katerina and what we've speculated is true: she's off at some isolated island where she is 'free'.

2/20/2018 3:34 pm

My Raymond/Katarina shipper heart head canons KR living on the island in Brunei because the world needs to believe she is dead in order to keep Liz safe and Red has not only worked all these years to protect Liz but KR as well. Liz pushes Red away because of whatever the secret is and he goes off to the island to live out his days with KR, because everything he has done has been to protect both of them and that they try to pick up where they left off 30ish years ago. Liz discovers the truth through Dembe or Dom, finds Red and her mom, and they decide to take out the rest of the enemies so KR doesn't have to hide and that's how the end up finishing out the remainder of the show. If it ends up being true, I may turn into a puddle of goo. <3

lara1 · 2/20/2018 4:08 pm

Tuxie400 and Tatiana - I have seen those trailers. And I do think that is why we have so many references to honey and maybe that’s what the Winnie the Pooh references were about as well. The question is, what side was KR really on? Red speaks of KR’s home as the Soviet Union so was she truly kgb or turned by the US?

Tatiana · 2/20/2018 4:48 pm

Brittany - your ending is so great! LOL! Isn't it funny how we make our minds create happy endings?

2/20/2018 4:58 pm

perhaps that was his Hobsons’s choice, to effectively imprison KR in paradise (even if she was willing to go) and to behave as though she were dead, keeping her from her child and having to live without her. 🤔 (I want to believe it so badly lol)

Last edited by Brittany (2/20/2018 5:12 pm)

lara1 · 2/20/2018 10:07 pm

Tuxie400 wrote:
lara1 - As for burn notice - you know a good fire reference ignites my interest.

Yea, Tuxie400, I also read your entries on your Tumblr. I do look at it because its yours.....

Last edited by lara1 (2/20/2018 10:07 pm)

lara1 · 2/20/2018 10:13 pm

So I watched "Red" tonight the "spy" comedy that some of you may have seen. In it, the Helen Mirren character tells a story about how she had an unsanctioned affair with an agent. Because of that and to test her loyalty, she was ordered to kill him. She did.

I've seen that plot line in other spy films as well. It got me thinking, what if something like that happened to KR and "real" Reddington....one of them was ordered to kill the other.If it was "real" Reddington, KR fled and maybe he was shot. If Reddington maybe he could not do it and hence the whole faking of KR's death. maybe. And the agency burned him. Or he did try but didn't succeed. was that his Hobson's choice? Pure idle speculation of course.

Tuxie400 · 2/20/2018 10:41 pm

lara1 - Thanks for reading my Tumblr! It is rather fiery right now.

Tuxie400 · 2/20/2018 10:46 pm

I'm not sure a happy ending is in the cards for this show. But it's nice to imagine one.

Eastcoast · 2/21/2018 1:32 am

lara1, that is a good idea. That could very well be?

I do so much want a nice happily ever after........

2/21/2018 5:49 am

I tend to think the ending may be bittersweet. Some good things, some not. I think Red will die, his death being his ultimate redemption. But I’d love for him to be able to live out his days with KR, traveling the world and dropping in to visit their daughter and granddaughter now and then.

Last edited by Brittany (2/21/2018 5:51 am)

Tuxie400 · 2/21/2018 9:59 am

I agree Brittany with your bittersweet ending. Red has already offered himself up for Liz more than once, and we had that line from him in The Endling:"Given the same circumstances, I'd like t think I'd be as brave as her. I know I'd want to be." I can't see this ending any other way except Red's death. But I do think in the end, Liz will realize everything Red has sacrificed along the way. She will finally understand how selfless he's been all along.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (2/21/2018 10:24 am)