Good point, Tuxie. I forgot about Vanessa Cruz. She was quite a bit like what Katarina may have been like in her day.  I'm not sure if she would have even had to seduce Carla sexually or romantically, but could have 'seduced' her in other ways (the possibility of money, power, etc).  
I'm definitely curious about what we will learn about the real Raymond Reddington.  Was he a good guy?  He may have been good at his job, but what was he like as a person?  Clearly he didn't care to cheat on his wife and it sounds like he may have loved Katarina if he wanted her to run away with him and bring Masha.  But what stopped Katarina?  She loved him, but something about the idea of being with him and bringing Masha into that life stopped her from actually doing it.  

Last edited by Brittany (5/21/2018 3:45 pm)

I think you're right about both things, Tuxie.  

When I think about all the factors involved up to this point, a very strong connection to Katarina appears.  The players involved in knowing the whole truth (who were around before the fire) are: Sam (who knew both KR and RR, but was close enough to call KR 'Kat' when no one else ever does and he never mentions Raymond), Kaplan (who knew only KR before the fire), Dom (who was KR's father), and Naomi (who was RR's wife).  Other things that factor in as strong connections to Katarina would include: 1) knowing were Liz was after the fire.  Katarina was very cautious about where she sent Liz and didn't want Kaplan anywhere near her because she could potentially expose her, 2) Red knowing that Kaplan was skilled as a crime scene cleaner after she cleaned up the man Katarina killed.  I doubt she would want to go around advertising that her nanny knows the truth about her job.  If random people didn't take her out, the KGB would, 3) Red knowing the truth of Liz's paternity when that was also something Katarina attempted to cover up, even though it seems likely she knew the truth if she put a fake paternity test out there for Kirk and didn't seem to even want to admit it to Kaplan, 4) Kaplan saying Red put Liz in her arms as a baby.  I've allowed for that to be a metaphorical thing back when it appeared Red was her father (as in a trusting her with his child way), but now that we know he isn't, then it wouldn't seem to make sense except in a literal way.  And the writers did say that wasn't an error and it would be explained later on.  Then there are all the thoughts Red talks about in regards to Katarina's feelings on her pregnancy and her relationship with Liz's father (though they are somewhat contradictory to what Katarina tells Kate and what she writes in her diary).  He could have been lying, I suppose.  But those are also times when I felt like he was trying to be honest with her (even if he had to word things differently to hide his own truths).  And whoever he is, Dom blames him for making a colossal mess of things that resulted in him not being able to see his granddaughter, which seems to point to him being involved before or around the time of the fire and Liz being placed permanently with Sam.

So whether Red is actually Katarina or someone extremely close to her, the roads seem to strongly point back to her.  And I wonder if the reason why she (or whoever) took on Red's identity was in order to take the attention of the Cabal (and whoever else was involved) away from looking for Liz and onto him (in addition to protecting her). 

Also, Oleander was considered a dangerous operative back in the day.  I can't see him being strong-armed by a younger, unconnected operative into staying out of his granddaughter's life and trusting them to keep her safe.  His personality alone doesn't fit that. 

Edit: Another thing I remembered.  No one else has ever mentioned Red being shot in the fire or "how did he survive that".  We don't know who was even there at this point.  But Katarina knew the truth.  She didn't explicitly say it was Raymond or what, but she definitely implied that Liz had done something to a man and it would confirm Liz's memory of firing the gun and Red's assertions that she killed her father that night. 

Last edited by Brittany (5/21/2018 5:23 pm)

Hi all,

just to let you know that I can't get on the Rederina train, at least not yet.  For me, it doesn't completely gel and does not answer a lot of other weird stuff and repeated parallels, scenes dialogs etc and the other strange stuff we have seen linking the characters in the series.  (Agnes' age the last time we saw her, a random thing that comes to mind.  but there are tons of others)

So while I don't hate the theory, to me its a theory that I just don't buy into yet.  So while I'll be dipping in to read the comments here I won't be actively engaged in the discussions.  But I think its great for those of you who want to drop down that rabbit hole.   

Yes, Tatiana, while I respect the theory and see its possibilities, I just don't buy into it enough as yet to get into the discussions.  But I hope that all who are interested continue to post, and have the support here to do so.  I will certainly be reading them.

And yes there are lots of other threads to obsess over other ideas and theories!  And thanks for you and HW for continuing to oversee the site!  

Last edited by lara1 (5/23/2018 11:42 am)

I am not on board with it but Everything is on the table until totally disproven.  

I do not mind reading the theory but I cannot get past the things I have already posted about with the medical stuff and search procedures that would have them all looking at each other after he turned himself in. (ah-hem, clearing my throat) 
Not only that, but I was thinking about this and I wondered why would anyone who is wanted become another person of the opposite sex no less who is wanted instead of someone who can walk around freely?   If it was only about the fulcrum then why not go back to someone else who is not on all the wanted posters?  Not that Red seams to have too many problems moving around the city with no one knowing who he is..... 


 

I've been on other discussion boards and one blogger who's done a whole lot of re-watches has said Red (Redarina) is another 'Karakurt'.

Karakurt is the Russian name for a specific spider, one which is particularly venomous and sometimes deadly. 

"Karakurt, that means spider, right?"

Then remember in the scene with Mr. Kaplan:
"Hello Raymond"
"Said the fly to the spider"

So you all know I have a goofy affinity for mythology and its references in this show. Plus, Lara and Tuxie have done an excellent job of showing patterns. There's lots of them. Mirrors and glass, lots of mirrors and glass that are shattered. And look a lot like a complex web, a spider's web.

In greek mythology (of course) there's a tale of a woman who was turned into a spider by the goddess Athena and condemned to weave. Her name is Ariadne and there's an expression, "Ariadne's Thread" which is the solving of a problem with multiple apparent means of proceeding - such as a physical maze, a logic puzzle, or an ethical dilemma - through an exhaustive application of logic to all available routes.

A Hobson's choice?

Sounds like The Blacklist to me!

Look at wikipedia... kind of interesting as I see it as the way to solve the puzzle of The Blacklist and I find it as the choices the characters face.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariadne%27s_thread_(logic)

Eastcoast - re: if Red were Katarina wouldn't he still call Dom "Dad"

Not necessarily. In the world of spies, no one can ever let their guard down. If assuming a new identity, that identity must always be kept. We certainly know that Dom and Red have more than a familiar relationship. They've lived together. They've had breakfast together and know each others' idiosyncrasies. 
And of course, if it were true that Red is Katarina, then it would be a big reveal if he said, hey pops.
 

Maybe so. I would just think that if they were alone it could be different. Even spies talk among themselves. 
But anyway, it was something that crossed my mind. 
 

Of course we will stay together!  We are merely on hiatus ourselves right now.

Tatiana wrote:

I've been mostly active on the FB page for Redarina theorists but I wanted to share an article that was just posted. Regardless of whether you're in the Redarina camp or not, it is very insightful. The transgendered male who is the focus of the article has some really fascinating insights as to what it is to be a male and a female.

The biggest take for me is those who insist Red is not a transgendered male born female, just take a look at this guys mug! Ha! No way he doesn't 100% pass as male!

http://dailycaller.com/2018/07/21/transgender-transition-mansplains/

I read this article, but I see a mug photo. I too have been reading and posting mostly on the FB page for Redarina theorists.