As I was reading this it reminded me of something I wanted to mention a while back on my re-watch of season 1. 
I remember we had discussed a while back if something could be hidden in her scar.  When i watched Wujing I threw that idea out because she was scanned and nothing showed up.

Tuxie, I have not forgot that you said you wanted to hear my other thoughts on the fire.
I'm just trying to get what I'm thinking sorted out in my head. 

As I was trying to go to sleep,  I remembered something else. I was reading interviews not long ago and on one of them it mentioned Kirk being a Kgb agent. 
I thought we had concluded he was just a business man and had nothing to do with that?

I re-watched some clips from The Harem and was struck once again by Liz in black frame glasses - looked. a lot like young Kaplan in Requiem.  Maybe this was just foreshadowing that episode or just Liz's connection to Kaplan as nanny - which a lot of us had guessed anyway! Liz also wore Red-like sunglasses in one episode in Season 4.  I think its hard sometimes to go back and determine whether something was there just to foreshadow something that we then find out a few episodes later, or whether its deeper.

In the meantime I've gone back to my thoughts on clocks/times in TBL.  For no particular reason, watches popped into my head.  I'll add this to the clocks topic if I haven't already but things that randomly popped into my head today:

1.  Red usually wears a watch with what are red numerals I believe (I did look at this closely previously, its not obvious except in extreme close up) 
2.  Tom's fake Rolex when he meets Ashton (is Tom still faking it?)
3.  Most of the main characters in the Post Office except Liz regularly wear a watch (Cooper, Ressler, Aram (can't recall Samar but I think so).  Kaplan also did.
4.  In one episode there's a scene where Red recalls having to leave a very expensive watch on a nightstand somewhere.  Very particular description about the make and model of watch.

What does it mean, I still don't know.  But I think somehow its all tied to time and what is real and what isn't (as in the various times on the clock in the fire memories).  Anyone else have some "watch" instances they recall.

Last edited by lara1 (8/28/2017 10:55 am)

Lara - I think the watch thing is significant. I certainly noticed it about Red, but not so much about other characters... well, wait, at some point Liz has worn a thin band silver? banded watch on her left wrist I think.

No one wears watches any more since we're all electronically connected. And we know everyone on this show is on their cell all the time! So that says to me that watches/clocks/time are important.

Hmmmm....maybe a theory for time-travel!!! LOL!

East coast #204. 

I re-watched Braxton tonight and I still don't see Red touching Liz's wrist. Is it possible you can give me the time in the episode where you see it?  What I see is this:

Red puts his left hand behind her shoulder and then Ressker and the FBI burst in. There is then a close up of Liz's left hand on top of Red's other (presumably,right hand). It looks to me like she has moved her hand onto his but impossible for me to tell 100%. It's not the hand with the scar I don't think. isn't that her right hand?

Anyway Then a few minutes later into the memory recall I see another close up of Liz's hand still on top of Red's sort of trying to grab it yet pulling away at the same time. The camera flashes to the gloved arm in the memory pulling away from Liz's adult hand/arm.

I kept rewinding it but didn't see anything except her pulling away in response to what is happening in the memory.

Not to say Red doesn't reach to touch her wrist, I just cant see it. Ugh.

Thanks Eastcoast!  I forgot that your photo had the time stamp.  I will try to freeze it at that point when I watch again.  Maybe I am focusing on the wrong scene.

In the photos you posted I still see Liz grasping Red's hand - then in the episode letting go as the gloved hand/arm let go of hers in the memory that flashes an instant later but its subject to interpretation I guess.  It could be he touches her wrist though her hand seems posed too high up on his for that to happen but I still think it could have happened that he touched her wrist.

 It isn't the wrist that is scarred though so I don't think whatever happened with the person letting go of her hand caused it.  just my opinion of course, no one can know for sure!

I did see something interesting though when I looked back at the photos you posted.  In the second one, the one from the memory recall, there is a white blurry thing front and center.  Could it be the bunny?

In the photos around the web that have freeze framed the scene of the men leaving out the front door, the blond man on the left is holding something that looks like it could be a white bunny.  And it looks like the same person has a similar ring to "ring man", on the same hand as "ring man".  If you enlarge that scene, its some kind of ring but no one can say for sure if its the same, looks similar though....could "ring man" be the one that drops Liz's hand and takes the bunny to escape with it?  And Liz is ultimately led out of the fire by someone else.....just a theory.  Still too many gaps in the memory we can't fill or explain.  And then we are told everyone is not who they appear to be anyway....LOL

I'm sure if we put it all together there are solid weeks of conjecture about that scene alone!  It will be very interesting to see the final picture that fills in the blanks!

I forgot, there is some talk about the guy with the ring my friend told me about. I think she said on FB. I could be wrong.  I am going to have to put it on my big screen to see it better when I get a chance. 
RL still kicking my backside! 

Tuxie400 - so, OK, I was looking at the gifs of the deleted Masha/Kirk scenes that you reblogged on your Tumblr site and for some reason a really wild and crazy theory popped into my head.  It mainly works if one believes in the imposter theory and maybe the two girls/two daughters theory.  but it might work without the imposter theory.

I will preface this by saying that I still don't know what to make of deleted scenes in general.  Are they not canon because they did not make the final cut, or do they have meaning but just cold not be fit in when maybe some more important dialogue had to be included.  Or, maybe the deleted scenes give too much away.  It might be any or all of these, depending on the scene.

I noted the following:  how Masha loos like bubble girl, the checked pattern on her hat, and that the actor playing young Kirk has a sort of quiff to his hair that kind of looks like the hair of the man who was shot in the fire memories. Its kind of tufted and combed up.  I haven't watched this on a TV screen so I admit I can't tell ay resemblance to either older Kirk or to Red.  I do need to watch it with a larger image and the whole scene.

anyway my wild out there idea is what if the twist with Red the imposter is that he is the original Rostov?  What we see in that deleted scene is not only Rostov and Masha, but maybe Red as Rostov.  

Red said that KR went by many names, but he knew her as Katarina Rostova.  Some of us have wondered from time to time if "Red" was really married to KR before Rostov/Kirk came along.  And did Red "know" the Summer Palace because it was his home originally? He sneered and seemed bitter at the mention.  And what of "Katya" whose mother used to run the household.  That has never been fully explained....but this idea might explain how Kate found her way to KR in the first place....Red as Rostov was there and wanted her hired.

I've always wondered how Red, busy running spies, had time to run up to Canada repeatedly to have an affair with KR.  Maybe he wasn't "Red" running around having the affair, but he was living there as Rostov.  Interestingly in that deleted clip "kirk" says he is going to Johannesburg - the same location of the man who bid for Red at auction in T. Earle King.  And very near to "Whitehall" on Howard's map.  Did Red make an enemy there, or even, was that enemy "Kirk"?

Some of us have also speculated that it was Red whom Liz shot the night of the fire.  What if it was, and what if it was him as Rostov?  And Kirk takes over his (Rostov's) identity. this may not have been malicious, but maybe just convenient.   And Kirk thinks Rostov dead, and to protect himself original Rostov takes on another identity ("Red") who was killed in the fire.  Just because we see someone on the floor with a Red haircut doesn't mean it was "our" Red.  And the huge shock on Kirk's face at the end of Ep. 4.08 - Red tells him he is not Reddington but the original Rostov.  Maybe it was Kirk who had an affair with KR to being with - 

Of course this doesn't explain why Kirk was convinced that Liz was his daughter.  But what if Kirk had an affair with KR.  And why do we see Masha with two different hair colors and textures.  Maybe Red had two daughters.  The first one died for whatever reason and the second one was re-named her name (Flora Seguna).  And the crazy twist (f you don't have a headache yet reading  this LOL) is that Liz would then be Masha and Red's daughter after all but as Rostov - as in the story told by Kirk impersonating Rostov.  LOL!  time for sleep....

The non imposter version of this theory is that original Reddington posted as original Rostov (the real Rostov never existed); or Rostov posed as Reddington - basically a spy with a over identity one way or the other, but still "our" Red as Rostov married to KR.

Yeah this probably has lots of holes in it but I'm still having fun pondering it over the holiday weekend.

(and by the way I don't discount the multiple personality theory.....I think the story may be in layers and one can exist over the other or even independent of it.  In some respects, this idea may even play into the multiple personality theory.).

 

Last edited by lara1 (9/01/2017 10:20 pm)

Tuxie400 - agree that current Kirk looked like the man who was shot too although that hair dip wasn't as pronounced.  LOL.  And don't they also kind of look like the man with the ring (maybe) exiting the house -  and then again maybe none of that is the actual person..  LOL.  I think we all perceive things slightly differently and see what "we" see, I thought that young Kirk actor looked more like Red than Ulirch as Kirk.   Particularly shape of face, and eyes (LOL).  But I concede that I need to watch it on a larger screen to check it out further.  

There are a lot of blond men in the series who look like both of the men in the fire memories, several women with long brown hair, and of course the multiple little girls.  I think I read on Tessa's blog that she thinks some of the memories shown are Red's, some are Liz's.  I'm going to re-watch the episode where Liz and Red are talking in the car after Liz knows about Sam - about how Liz came to be with Sam.  I've long thought those memories on the screen are Red's, as they are shown after Red speaks.  Might be interesting to compare them to those in Braxton.  LOL I think we will all be talking about that scene long after the series ends and we know what really happened.   

Last edited by lara1 (9/02/2017 1:43 pm)