Tuxie400 - interesting thought about that conversation with Kaplan that doesn't make sense when compared with what we see in Requiem.   I feel we definitely don't know something that would put it together - and you have a good point about the personalities.  I think I will keep this all in mind on my rewatch!

It might also explain other stuff that doesn't add up.....

I can't seem to reset my thrushes password from my iPad so I will try it when I get home. And I am admin!

Oh well. Very interesting discussions re the fractured personality thing. Sometimes it seems to really be the only way to make some of the things make sense as a whole. Unless we are still missing some really big pieces, which is also very likely.

Maybe I will get back to rewatching before October! Crazy busy summer! Yesterday we went to see Hamilton in SF. Crazy traffic day!

Well I haven't had much luck finding my thoughts on Red's fractured personality - although it appears I first coined that term, as it relates to Red, during our discussions on the Apothecary.  But I had discussed it before that episode, will look into the other threads tomorrow.

In the Apothecary,I thought maybe some of what Red didn't remember was due to multiple personality.  But in the end it came down to amnesia - right?  Do we think that explained everything?  I can't remember that Red was ever confirmed to have amnesia or whether that was just a logical conclusion given the snake venom poisoning.  But what if it didn't explain everything?  It will be interesting to re-watch that episode now that there's a little distance from it.

Hey Colleen - thanks!  I hadn't looked there yet.  I'd like to review it and see if anything lines up a bit more now, in order to keep in mind during my re-watch.

Well I was able to log onto the site earlier today so at least I've got that covered!  LOL  

lara1,
 I wanted to ask you what you saw in Cape My when he was looking at her in the mirror?
I hit rewind and didnt see anything out of the ordinary and now I wonder what I missed? :-)

And yes, I always get more out of it when I can look at several episodes at a time.




 

HI all,

Tuxie400 started a thread on THRUSHES re multiple personality.  I posted the following over on that site but repeating it here as well because its a fairly generic post:

Given our recent discussions here  I decided to watch Cape May again tonight with the theories of a possible Redefine, or (with or without Rederina) multiple personality affecting Red.  Well with that prism there is quite a bit I pulled together, that I’d seen before of course but never pulled together in quite this way. I was struck by the amount of "mirrored" dialogue with Red and KR, as well as various other pieces of dialogue and scenes that played out. 

Several of us theorized after Cape May was initially shown that the KR character represented Red’s subconscious, and he was having conversations with himself to work through his emotions.  Well suppose this is taken one step further and it wasn’t his subconscious per se but either the identity of KR (Rederina) or another alternate personality (could be KR).  Here are my thoughts. 

“Mirrored” Conversations/Wording:

“Just Me”
-KR to Red during their risotto dinner conversation:“I was out of my mind.  There was no one.  Just me.”

-Beachcomber to Red at the end:He hasn’t seen any other living soul on the beach for two weeks:“Just you.”Red: “Just me….
-Red then goes back in the house and realizes everything that has happened overnight has happened just to him:  he walks through the house, in the bathroom and past the piano and says again:  “Just me.”

 “I had no choice”
-KR to Red over their risotto dinner after he describes his Hobson’s choice:       
   “You had no choice.
-KR to Red after speaking of how she has to kill herself:         
  “I have no choice.”

 What would you do?
KR says this to Red during their suicide conversation and he says it right back to her.  

Other words or phrases , and some of the cryptic comments we have noticed earlier that might also play into either theory:

-When Red is in the bathroom and is about to be attacked from behind, there is that weird kind of disembodied voice that sounds like KR,   “behind you”, yet KR is nowhere near - she is either across the room or outside the room as she comes in with a full run to get the attacker.  Later, at the end of the episode, when Red walks through the house saying, “just me”, he says “behind you” out loud.  Leads me to think he said it in the first place, or more specifically, keeping these theories in mind, one of his personalities said it to him or KR as Red said it

-Red to KR:  I don’t know your name.  KR: Don’t be ridiculous Raymond.  (Hmmmm). And the look on Red’s face when she says that.

-Red’s cryptic comment to KR in the scene when she is in the bath and he is sitting outside:  “There aren’t many of us.  You learn to recognize it…..”

- KR to Red when he finds the “intruder” umbrella “You must think I’m crazy.”  Echoes Red’s comments elsewhere in the series about being crazy…and those who say it to him.  Hmmm 

Multiple Identity Clues in Various Scenes?
In addition, the scene with the cop may be another huge clue to Red’s identity:  the cop comes to check on things and wants to see some kind of “identification” that Red is who he says he is; meanwhile Red rifles through multiple fake license IDs.  After the cop leaves (rather curiously, in retrospect, after also having an “identity” conversation with Red about where his “wife” is….), KR says to Red. “He knows”.    Maybe the entire scene and its actions and dialogue are pointing to the assumed identities, whatever they may be. 

Lastly, various scenes which we have commented on before pull together with a slightly different emphasis under these theories when taken together:  (some of us have previously commented on some of these separately)

• The scene before the fireplace with KR and Red’s faces superimposed on each other; they fall asleep facing each other, with one face literally resting on the other.  Then Red wakes up, alone (i.e. one person)
• The scene with KR and Red on either side of the wall with the wall between them and KR knocks on the wall and Red in turn knocks on the wall; scene looks like two halves of the “one” as does the fireplace scene;
• When KR is playing the piano as Red walks into the sitting room, Red’s fedora is resting prominently on the piano in front of KR; at the end of the episode we realize that it was Red, not “KR” playing the piano…again are they one and the same
• The aforementioned whispers with the bathroom attacker

Yes filming is back!  good news!

Eastcoast - the thing I was pointing to in the Cape May mirror scene was just the way they both appeared in the mirror and Red spoke to KR in the mirror, as it were, given all the mirror themes in the series and here was an episode which holds answers for us (that we might not know yet).  I was thinking about it in the overall context of the other identity/possible Rederina/possible multiple personality lens.  I suppose I should have added it to that post as well.  

I'm not sure where that link is to that Bokenkamp interview/statement but I'll keep a look out for it.  

Last edited by lara1 (7/26/2017 4:27 pm)

Tatiana, thank you so much😀

Tatiana - hi, hope that your summer is going well!

Eastcoast #157 - could be, makes sense.  Now, your idea gave me another one - and added a twist to it .  Your thought is that Red is speaking of two people - of both KR and of Liz.  Well, here is a wild idea to add to it - suppose in addition to two people, its "two people" speaking - both Red as Red (whoever he is) and Red as KR (whether as Redefine or other personality).  Yeah I think the "woman I loved" doesn't really fit for KR, but then it doesn't really fit for Red either (if he is Liz's father).  But, the part of the speech about the child's father taking her away and not letting "Red" see the child or be part of her life - well that also coud describe "Raymond" kidnapping Liz and taking her away from KR.

Hey Tuxie400 any thoughts on that?  its really such a strange and ambiguous scene, IMO.

Last edited by lara1 (7/27/2017 9:02 am)

Great argument for the imposter theory:

http://theblacklistnbc.com/the-imposter-theory-revisited-is-red-really-red/