Those are great observations, Tuxie400 #78.

Just Kate's luck.

Getting murdered by her boss!

Surviving, because some resourceful mountain man took a shine to her!

Getting kidnapped by an invisible but core-focused cartel!

Interrogated & forced to provide information on her former mastermind/boss!

A ton of this occurring in our vivid TBL imaginations!

I think Kate has the means and the motivation to be the actor behind his demise. I'm not saying I'm convinced of it, but it's there. Kate has changed. I refer to the dialogue between Kate and Tom in the car in Mato Kate:

So you want me to make you feel better? Everyone wants me to make things easier for them. Cleaner. That’s what I am, after all, the Cleaner.
Tom: Just forget I brought it up
.Kate: In my desire to make life easier for your baby, I betrayed Raymond, and now he doesn’t know what to do with me. Well, he knows what he has to do, and he wants me to make it easier for him. But I won’t. I’m not here to make him feel better, and I’m not here to make you feel better, Tom. 

She's resolved to not make Red or Tom feel better about what they do. I see this as a pivotal moment when she still 'works' for Red, but she's not going to make it easy for Red anymore.

'But I won't' sounds very determined. She's always devoted herself to taking care of Raymond. This is a new Kate, or it least it seems like it to me."Yes, I betrayed you, but only after you had betrayed her. Raymond, you have to change. I took Elizabeth from you, and now I need your help to get her back. But when you do, as I’m sure you will, you have to let her go."

Red will not change. Will Kate continue to intervene so that Elizabeth and Agnes will remain protected? Red's presence in their lives is what makes them unsafe.

So there is motivation for Kate to make Red's life change. And she has all the knowledge necessary to do it. 

Last edited by Tatiana (2/19/2017 10:20 am)

I re-watched the episode tonight.  Not too much from a mythology perspective but a few mentions.

after a few mentions of poker in the last few episodes, a different card game:  euchre. card game Gavin and Judith Pruitt used to play...another playing card reference was a mention of an "ace up his sleeve" later on in the episode

Rabbit references - rabbit hole again, "rabbit food smoothie", interesting these mentions of rabbits and rabbit holes the last few episodes....

lastly someone mentioned a "ghost story", to add to the various references to ghosts and haunting that have popped up I the last few episodes (Kaplan??)

Back to the clock references, on the other thread, the Architect's stop watch is featured prominently.

 

Last edited by lara1 (2/20/2017 12:03 am)

I noticed that too Patter!

I am pretty convinced that some clues to the overall story are in, or parallel, to the two Lewis Carroll books - Alices's Adventures in Wonderland; and Through the Looking Glass, though I can't figure it out.

In the former, we have Alice going down the rabbit hole, the white rabbit (often pictured looking at a pocket watch!), the part where she gets very big and then very small - all things that happen to Liz in the fire memories; we have the Mad Hatter (!!), the White Queen, the Red Queen, the playing cards, "Off with their heads", Cheshire Cat (Flat cat) probably other things I'm leaving out.  There's a red King also etc.

Then in Through the Looking Glass, Alice is able to enter wonderland through a mirror over the fireplace (BL themes, anyone!! LOL), the White Queen again, the Red Queen, the twins Tweedledee and Tweedeldum; the chess game and the checkmate that awakens Alice.

I would love to get a copy of the first editions of each of these, to study the illustrations!

Last edited by lara1 (2/20/2017 3:28 pm)

So funny, Lara! I was just doing some searches on The Adventures of Alice in Wonderland.

When I was looking at all those tweets the other day, what I gathered are two things: The pilot episode and the Alexander Kirk Concl. dialogue between Red and Kirk are what TPBL have said are crucial to the story. I've been going through scripts to weed out the extra stuff and see if I can find a golden thread.... 

I wasn't really sure where to put this, so I'll add it here.  

Tatiana, you mentioned recently that you were looking at the pilot script again.

here is something fascinating that I found:

When the Hazmat spill occurs, necessitating a detour of the convey carrying Liz and the general's daughter, Beth, someone calling out the hazmat team says "Rolling Thunder".  I'd need to watch that scene again to see who exactly is saying that to whom, but in Artax, its operator 4-6 (mustache man) who calls into "Rolling Thunder" that their operation center has been found and about to be raided by the FBI.

Rolling Thunder in both the pilot and in Artax?  interesting.  So is Rolling Thunder an individual, or someone working in Hargrave's company?  Why would Halcyon be involved in kidnapping the general's daughter in the pilot?  And who is Rolling Thunder and why was that person involved?

Hmmmm

edited to include extract from the dialogue:

Hey, what's going on up there?
HazMat has the road closed. We'll be turning around.
SOLDIER: Rolling Thunder to Follow 1. Be advised we have a chemical spill ahead.
Copy that. Proceeding to alternate route. 

I wonder if "rolling thunder" has some kind of military meaning.....

Last edited by lara1 (2/21/2017 12:15 pm)

Lara - it actually was a military action in Viet Nam. I haven't had a chance to read through it yet:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rolling_Thunder

Lara - 
Here's a Bokenkamp interview which points out what's important, at least to him:

1) Liz is a chosen one;
2) Red had an affair with Katerina
3) What Red said to Kirk is critical to the storyline

What did Red say to Kirk?
The truth is, we’re not going to find out what he said. That whisper was a secret between the two men who loved Katarina. Besides, if you really knew what Red said the show would probably be over.

Everyone has suspected that Red was Liz’s father since the beginning. Why did you decide to go this route?

Ultimately this is a ‘chosen one’ story. Elizabeth Keen is clearly incredibly important to Red. Why? That’s what we’re slowly revealing over time, and trust me, the answers are all there. As you pointed out — the father theory is only one of many. For me, it was never so much about is he her father or is he not — but why is this young woman so important to Raymond Reddington?

Red seemed to know inside info on Katarina and Kirk’s relationship. How would he know that?

We’ve already established that Red had an affair with Katarina, and I think one can only assume she told him many intimate details about her actual husband, Alexander Kirk.

Is Red Liz's father?Is Red Liz's father?

JON BOKENKAMP: I think it’s best to let the show and its characters answer that. Anything that’s meaningful is in the scripts and on the screen. Everything else is noise.Should we trust what Red told Kirk about being Liz’s father or was he just telling Kirk what he wanted to hear?Well, he did say he was her father and he sounded like he meant it. That said, he was also heavily drugged with god knows what. I’ll let you decide.