Tatiana and Tuxie400 - interesting thoughts

I wonder if "isabella stone" is an alias. If she's from Red's distant past and has a major axe to grind, it might be. I wonder why she is coming after him now, though. Those preview shots show him very worried, though we cant necessarily conclude that. I agree, interesting choice of name!

I also thought it was unusual for Red to unburden his woes to Baldur if he was a stranger and a rival. To me, baldur seemed surprised to hear Red's words, but not concerned. Also surprised that Red did not kill him. My question, though, is, why didn't Baldur just tell Red that he didnt kill Smoll?  Its one thing to swoop in on a business rival and take advantage of a business opportunity and a weakness; its another thing to create that weakness in the first place (ie by killing Smoll ). So why would baldur almost bait Red to come after him?

In any event, either Red knew  Baldur well, to tell Baldur of his feelings, or its just another example of Red   Unravellng.   Red rarely reveals his feelings unless he's about to kill someone!  Here, he didn't, so interesting to me on both counts.

Tuxie400, i like your tie in with Red's portrait. The name of the artist ( character)  is in the detailed spoiler photos but i havent had a chance to look into it yet.

Last edited by lara1 (2/03/2017 5:49 pm)

Honey West wrote:

Ah, I see Isabella Stone is #34, so she has a pretty high number.

Good point, Honey West - I missed that!   I like the idea of a "character assassin".  So, for those who believe in the/an imposter theory, is Red worried that she is out to expose who he really is?  Or just mess with his current "criminal reputation" and bring about his downfall?  hmmm
 

lara1 wrote:

OK so I've been thinking some more about Isabella Stone.    I think that Red knows of her and how dangerous she can be and maybe dealt with her in the past or knows her by association.  But something tells me that she is not actually the big bad.  I think she has been hired by the big bad, in the same way that Scottie was hired by Kirk.  I think the big showdown will be in Episode 15, the last before the winter/spring hiatus.  Either Isabella Stone has been hired by someone, or she is acting out on behalf of/because of someone else (e.g. revenge for something Red did to someone else).  Just a thought, a gut feeling more than anything that's been shown to us.  

But any way, she is bad news!  

 
Interesting ideas.

Maybe she is another ex-wife? (wink)

Honey West #47 - yes!  I forgot about that - I am sure he has said that somewhere in a previous season.  Can't recall where/when but I'm pretty certain that he has said that.

Thanks for mentioning that!

Wow Honey West - I completely forgot that Red spoke about a man's reputation being off limits! Now his reaction to hearing Isabella Stone's name makes sense - like he was punched in the gut. He truly seemed overwhelmed.

When first seeing that scene I couldn't figure out why Red was so upset.  Only thing I came up with was maybe he considered Isabella Stone a friend (a la Madelyn Pratt) - and she was yet another betrayer.

Colleen wrote:

Seems like there was a church reference in the scene where Red is talking about death. There's a brief arial shot showing a stained glass window near the room's ceiling. It fits with the confessional tone of Red's conversation.

Colleen - good observation, and it fits in with the overall church theme in the series.  Need to re-watch this weekend!

I remember that awesome stained glass above Red's head in several key scenes in 4.05, where he is living in the renovated church.  I believe it was when Red was playing the organ (!) and right before Brimley invited Red and Kaplan to his wedding; then at the end when Liz confronts him with the DNA test while Red is having his dinner.

In that episode, as I recall, someone (maybe you!) identified the scene in the window - something to do with children - have to look it up - suffer the little children to come unto me, perhaps?  have to check it.  I know someone identified it but can't recall exactly.
 

Last edited by lara1 (2/04/2017 12:20 pm)

I just completed my re-watch and the most interesting thing to me is how Red is filmed through glass, reflections, images etc once again but its very pronounced in this episode, and in a few scenes, the reflections are reversed:

in the beginning we have Red speaking from what looks like Liz and Tom's apartment - there's the camera shots of him looking through the windows, in front of the windows, etc., as we have been used to seeing before.  Most notably started in Season 1 (there's those parallels again!) when we see him looking through the window at Takoma Park, and through the windows of Diane Fowler's house, this time at night, after he has killed her.  But the window and the camera shot is very similar to the Takoma Park camera shot.

Then, in the restaurant with Baldur, we have Red once again in front of a window, but this time, his reflection is not in it; rather, there are camera shots taken from outside the window looking in, so the reflections are not of Red, but of the objects outside the window (plants, a fountain, etc)

Then in the last scene with Red and Natalie - its the same illusion again - we see Red on the other side of the glass looking in, but his reflection is barely there - its very faint and almost far away, barely noticeable in one camera shot, and not at all in others.  Instead, we see Natalie, on the other side of the glass looking in at Red,  reflected back in the glass.

I think this is the first time that Red's window/reflection scenes have been filmed in that manner.  I don't know what it means, but its almost like his mirror image is reversing itself in some way.....

Tuxie400, that's an interesting thought that we are being shown someone following Red and looking in at him when he is in the restaurant.  I'm not sure though because they kind of employ the same reflection technique in his scene with Natalie.    I guess we will find out!

Last edited by lara1 (2/05/2017 10:31 pm)

I just rewatched as well, Lara. Lots of mirrors, reflections, light, horizontal blinds or bars like in a jail. I also noticed how many sea/ocean/ship references there were. And one rabbit/bunny reference when Liz says something about 'going down the rabbit hole' with what Red is having Tom do.

Painting - I just noticed a similarly colored painting to the tombstone/Liz painting. It's in the house Malik and Natalie lived in. When the FBI and the CDC doctor looking over the labs, the behind the doctor is an oblong painting with that orange/rust color. It looks like there's water, but we cant' make it out.

More later :-)

Did they ever say for certain that it was Kirk who sent the painting? Or did we just assume that it was Susan Hargrave on behalf of him? And if so how do we know that? (I know, I need to do some rewatching)

And yes, I was struck by all of the reflections. The episode was directed by Michael Watkins. Have we ever done a list of directors of the episodes? I think we need one for reference.

Honey West wrote:

Did they ever say for certain that it was Kirk who sent the painting? Or did we just assume that it was Susan Hargrave on behalf of him? And if so how do we know that? (I know, I need to do some rewatching)

And yes, I was struck by all of the reflections. The episode was directed by Michael Watkins. Have we ever done a list of directors of the episodes? I think we need one for reference.

 
Honey West - i dont think it was ever disclosed who sent the painting. There was the ambiguity about Red saying Rostova.  The assumption was that Scottie sent it on behalf of Kirk ( or maybe she was even a Rostova - not sure how likely that is. )

JB did mention in an interview, i believe, wasnt it Kirk?  Or something like that. Then again, the answer was never on screen.

Last edited by lara1 (2/06/2017 8:58 am)