The Blacklist Refugees » The Blacklist Episode 4.12 "Natalie Luca" Discussion

Tuxie400 · 2/02/2017 11:41 pm

Yes, the scene with Dembe and Agnes was probably the best moment!

IowaWatcher · 2/03/2017 12:07 am

@ BBB -- I think the worst episode was ? Knights of the Road ? That one where Red had to use the spike from a doll's body to unlock his hand cuffs while lying on the floor of that dirty trailer. Ugh!

I agree that Red's parts were weak tonight. It isn't how a strong, well-read man thinks about death. The reference from "Wind in the Willows" worked (Mucking about in boats).

I liked other aspects of the episode: Tom's storyline was good.

I was hoping to catch of glimpse of Mr. Kaplin at the end, and I thought at first that "Isabella Stone" was Mr. Kaplin's real name, but I see from the previews that Isabella Stone is someone a lot younger.

Overall, I didn't like this episode as much as others, but it wasn't bad, either. My biggest disappointment is all the of the loose ends that still remain.

Colleen · 2/03/2017 12:08 am

Hi Everyone! I'm trying to decide if this was an average episode or a great one that needs rewatching to pick up all the subtleties and parallels.

The ill fated lovers (perfect description of them lara1 :-) reminded me of Romeo and Juliet, especially with the music. They appeared so much more in love than Liz and Tom. Liz and Tom seem like they are just going through the motions lately, talking about being a family, but not actually doing family things together (besides eating noodles for dinner).

Then we have Aram and Samar. They aren't in an official dating relationship but their actions are more romantic than Liz and Tom's. Aram secretly giving Samar his money - he was making a sacrifice for her. Their body language made them seem so connected and close to each other.

Not that I want to see Tom and Liz kill people for each other like the ill fated lovers did... But they could at least kiss hello when they get home from work. Tom went right to the other side of the kitchen table when he arrived home - creating so much distance between them.

Another comparison of the three couples is how they touched each other's hands. The ill fated couple escaped a medical research facility, stole money, killed people, etc. all so they could touch each other's hand (ok, they wanted to do more than that, but I'm being rated G). Then we had Samar gently touch Aram's hand near the end of the episode. And finally we have Tom reaching out for Liz's hand but Liz hesitates to touch him. Hmmm.

Maybe this was TBL's Happy Valentines Day gift to us...

Last edited by Colleen (2/03/2017 12:10 am)

lara1 · 2/03/2017 12:19 am

Hi Colleen:

"The ill fated lovers (perfect description of them lara1 :-) reminded me of Romeo and Juliet, especially with the music. They appeared so much more in love than Liz and Tom. Liz and Tom seem like they are just going through the motions lately, talking about being a family, but not actually doing family things together (besides eating noodles for dinner)."

My thoughts exactly. Its subtle but they (Liz and Tom) are not as connected anymore. Or, not as much as they were. The glue may be coming apart....With all the parallels to Season 1, I wonder whether there is a surprise in store as yet with Tom. Maybe nothing as egregious as in Season 1, but is there something he is hiding from Liz....

Yes I thought of Romeo and Juliet also of the couple. Its almost the first thing that sprang to mind. I need to think through that some more. Not the first time there has been a Romeo and Juliet image in the series.

Last edited by lara1 (2/03/2017 12:20 am)

Tuxie400 · 2/03/2017 12:35 am

Colleen - Nice comparisons with the three couples!. I will definitely watch this episode again. There has been a lot of Romeo and Juliet imagery throughout the series. I even thought of R and J when I saw the title of an upcoming episode was "The Apothecary."

Honey West · 2/03/2017 3:08 am

I liked the episode. It's another one of those sort of bridge stories for advancing the overall arc this time with Red, since it leads directly to the next Blacklister. It was a rather dark story, though. I wonder if they were foreshadowing that Reds story will also not have a happy ending. Red really has not been the same since Liz "died". I think that's what he was getting at with his talk to Natalie at the end about the heart and grief. He is certainly having issues with death and maybe just a little extra paranoia tossed into the mix.
Magnussen was an interesting character. A rival and equal. There is mutual respect among these heads of criminal organizations.

I also liked Dembe and Agnes. Cute.

Tom can't change his nature. Red told Liz a long time ago that he couldn't change. I think Liz is finally admitting to herself that it's true. I think when he goes off to Redemption that she will know it's the right thing but it will be open that he can come back once he completes his "quest". Not a big Liz episode this week, but I think she is very much still processing what Red did to Kate. Yes, she confronted him with it, but it was definitely not resolved between them.

I thought Samar's line about the most romantic thing she'd ever seen was a teensy bit hokey, but I guess there wasn't really a better way to say it and it led to a nice exchange with Aram. But Samar accidentally getting Aram's paycheck LOL! That actually happened to me once! With the same results! Male coworker that I was training was being paid more, I complained, called them on it and got a raise. But, of course, it shouldn't have happened in the first place.

So who is Isabella Stone that Red couldn't stand up after hearing her name? The previews looked pretty intense. And there was Liz picking the lock on a file cabinet. Is that where she got the plane crash info for Tom about his father? I suspect this info is what gets Tom started on his quest that leads to Redemption. Although the scenes of the crashed plane did hearken back to LOST.

Last edited by Honey West (2/03/2017 3:12 am)

ook ook book a book · 2/03/2017 9:28 am

I saw the actor's name in the credits and then figured out whom he had to be...YUP, 'NILES the BUTLER' from THE NANNY was Baldur Magnusson?????

Tsk, tsk... What will C C Babcock think?!

Last edited by ook ook book a book (2/03/2017 9:29 am)

Tuxie400 · 2/03/2017 10:25 am

ook okk - I thought Magnusson looked very familiar, but I couldn't place him. I haven't seen Niles the butler in a long, long time. Welcome to our forum!

Honey West - That plane crash scene did look like Lost! And Tom's dad is John Locke. Maybe Tom will solve the Lost mystery in a more satisfying way than its creators did.

ook ook book a book · 2/03/2017 10:36 am

RE LOST....

Red is my BEN LINUS crush!

Colleen · 2/03/2017 11:03 am

ook okk book a book - welcome!

Baldur Magnusson was Niles from The Nanny! I was wracking my brain trying to figure out what show he was from! Thank you!!!!

Tuxie400 · 2/03/2017 11:21 am

I found it interesting that Natalie was from Moldova. Could this be a clue of some sort? Moldova's timeline shares some important dates with Red's. It was recognized as and independent republic on Dec. 25, 1991 and its constitution was adopted on July 29, 1994, The patron saint of the country is St. George. It has been in the news during the past decade as a hotbed of money laundering for Russian mobsters and sales of old Soviet nuclear materials. The shape of the country, if turned upside down, sort of resembles Liz's scar and the logo on Tom's box.

ook ook book a book · 2/03/2017 11:21 am

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2016-04/19/15/campaign_images/webdr14/15-times-niles-was-savage-af-on-the-nanny-2-8649-1461093487-6_dblbig.jpg

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BM2M1OTc0MzgtZTk4NS00N2FlLTljOTAtZDQyNjI3YTc2ZWRmL2ltYWdlXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMTA1NjU0MTk@._V1_SY1000_SX1500_AL_.jpg

Colleen · 2/03/2017 11:37 am

Tuxie400 #31 - neat info about Moldova! Even a Christmas link! I'm going to check out its map asap.

Here's an entertaining review of Natalie Luca written by Jodi Walker. She also picked up on the Romeo and Juliet theme that we did:
http://ew.com/recap/the-blacklist-season-4-episode-12/

Patter · 2/03/2017 12:27 pm

Dembe and Agnus. Swoon!

At first I always took Blacklisters to be criminals (or what have you) who threatened really Red's end game (whatever that may be) or Elizabeth. I think that's one reason why Season 1 was AMAZING! Father?/Daughter? duo taking down people, which in turned saved the rest of the US and helps further Red's plan.

From time to time we get people who don't really feel like they fit or should be deserving of a number on ye ol' list. I was feeling like that last night. The task force takes out a Romeo/Juliet-esque couple and now no one else will die (even the girl didn't want to kill). And I was a little bummed until the connection with Red's accountant and who put this girl up to do such a thing...enter new lady Isabella Stone (a.k.a Jan Levinson, Michael Scott's lady).

Just when I was losing interest they pulled me back in. I honestly hoped it was Kaplan's under cover name with the way Red reacted, but I'm interested in who she is to Red.

Highlights: Dembe/Agnus
   Red intruding on the Keene's apartment like old times
   Red, Tom, & Dembe working together (Red saying he "likes(?) Tom, rather you") to Liz
   Reveal of Isabella Stone (for kicks it being Jan...loved that character)
   Red and his counterparts table discussion (talking of death being near)

Honey West · 2/03/2017 1:11 pm

Interesting stuff about Moldova. I hadn't looked it up yet. But it's that same area of Europe that other connections have been made to. I am guessing that they are all related somehow. Probably through the history since that whole part of Europe had major issues around that same time and Red's history seems to be set against that time of turmoil. That and places like Kuwait and northeastern Africa.

Welcome ook ook it's always great to see new names come on board and post comments!

I also got a kick out of Jodi Walker's recap. Always fun and she makes good points.

The Blacklisters don't always have an obvious connection to the rest of the story, but it's usually there somewhere and like last night where it basically pointed us to the next one. I wonder what Isabella Stone's number will be? Natalie Luca was pretty far down the list.

lara1 · 2/03/2017 3:13 pm

Interesting info on Moldova. I had thought of it but hadn't looked up the info yet. the interesting link for me to it was the fact that the virus/illness that Natalie had, where she is a carrier but not affected by it, was similar (another similarity to season 1) to the storyline with Berlin and Karakurt having the scientist develop the virus that infected others with the illness, but not the carrier - in that instance it was given to Liz, who was not affected by it, yet infected the senator by way of the Cabal plot to take her down and accelerate the 2017 plot.

Here we have Hawthorne (and we had a "blackthorne" a few episodes back) trying to capitalize on Natali'e illness and condition to make a biological weapon. But in Karakutt, the scientist (I forget his name) was able to do this, with a different virus. Anyway, I wonder if there is some history that can be traced back to Karakurt/the scientist/Moldova, in either a direct or indirect way.

Last edited by lara1 (2/03/2017 3:14 pm)

lara1 · 2/03/2017 3:18 pm

Well, we have another episode (and link back to Season 1) where Red was very impacted by Natalie's loss of her love, much in the same way Red was impacted by Ressler's loss of Audrey. in Mako Tanida). In both, Red gives a kind of little speech (though the one with Ressler was more powerful, though that situation was different and perhaps mirrored one of Red's more closely), there is a Japanese connection. Since the music that played during Red's little speech to Natalie was similar to, or the same as, the music that played during his journey in Cape May, I think this strengthens the theory that Red himself had undergone a critical loss of someone close to him, someone he loved, way back when. I'm not sure that its actually Katarina, but someone. Need to pay close attention on the re-watch!

Last edited by lara1 (2/03/2017 3:20 pm)

lara1 · 2/03/2017 3:31 pm

Patter #34 and Honey West #35- I agree with you on the Blacklisters. Sometimes they just seem to appear as incidental to the case at hand, - but how could they have been on Red's list that he assembled over 20 years? Natalie Luca I don't think could have been on his "original" list of threats to take down - unless she was very low priority, and only became important as the link to what happened to Smoll. . But she did become the next step to the real enemy, Isabella Stone.

and the way that i have come to view it, is that the "newer" Blacklisters, while maybe not "original" , do provide links to more serious Blacklisters or information. And I think each one is added to the overall storyline to provide additional clues or links to the overall back story, In this case, Natalie may or may not have been on Red's "original" list - but if she was it was because of some connection that exists in the backstory to the virus/Moldova ,the entire story of which we don't know yet. Well thats my view anyway, !

Last edited by lara1 (2/03/2017 3:32 pm)

Tatiana · 2/03/2017 3:35 pm

HI all - great comments! I just looked up Moldova which is located close to the Black Sea. Interesting because if you look a little east and a little south of there is Rosov-on-don, a port town. I have to think Rostov/a is a family name. Oh, and one of the sources said there's a lot of black market business.

Tuxie rightly pointed out that Moldova's Independence Day is August 27 1994. We see Luca at first in Moldova in 1994.

Which brings me to Isabella Stone. The obvious connection to "Elizabeth"/Isabella. But then I thought, why did they give her "Stone" as a last name. So I looked it up in the dictionary and there's a lot of different definitions:

: a concretion of earthy or mineral matter:a (1) : such a concretion of indeterminate size or shape (2) : rockb : a piece of rock for a specified function: such as (1) : a building block (2) : a paving block (3) : a precious stone : gem (4) : gravestone (5) : grindstone (6) : whetstone (7)

Wait a minute! Did that say gravestone? tombstone? If she's a character assasinator, then maybe she's been hired by someone or some entity to "kill" Red's character and ultimately put him in the grave. Which of course then made me think of the tombstone painting.

I'm still convinced that somehow Red is deep deep undercover. And that made me wonder what his connection to Balder Magnusson was? When Red disclosed so much about how he's felt death all around him, coming for him, but this time it's different, I couldn't help but think, why is he telling Balder all this? Is Balder part of his deep cover? Is Balder his handler?

Tuxie400 · 2/03/2017 4:28 pm

Tatiana - He certainly felt close enough to Baldur to express some pretty deep feelings. It would be interesting to know what their relationship was over the years.

Isabella Stone and Red's speech made me think of the tombstone painting. Plus, there are promo photos up from the upcoming "Architect" episode that has someone painting Red's portrait. That brought up the tombstone painting for me again too. Whenever there's a painting involved, it's going to be a good time.