The Blacklist Refugees » Evidence for the Imposter Theory

Honey West · 3/05/2017 12:26 am

Try that link I posted in the apothecary thread to the site that had the flat photos. I think it said free web photo hosting. Not sure what you have to do to get free, but might be worth checking.

Eastcoast · 3/19/2017 11:02 pm

I hope these show up ok.

Colleen · 3/20/2017 10:12 am

Thanks Eastcoast for the posting the photos! How wild would it be if the opening title sequence contained TBL's biggest secret all along?

With that same thought in mind, I've been reading TBL interviews from 2013, figuring folks might have been less secretive when the show began. Came across an interview with James Spader where he says that Red worked for the NSA after working for the Navy and before becoming a criminal. I'd never heard that anywhere before, and its from Spader himself who tends to choose his words carefully.

http://www.metronews.ca/entertainment/2013/08/27/new-series-the-blacklist-may-use-real-life-criminal-inspiration-but-theres-plenty-thats-original.html

The other thing that put my mind at ease was Spader's comment on TBL's similarity with Silence of the Lambs. Lately, I've been worrying about TBL taking a really dark turn, and while serial killers are nothing new to TBL, I was still happy to read that Red is "not a serial killer in any way, shape or form. He’s an operative and a businessman, and his business is crime.”

Note that Spader also used the word "operative," which according to the dictionary means "secret agent or private detective."

The words of the day are NSA and OPERATIVE.

Last edited by Colleen (3/20/2017 10:13 am)

lara1 · 3/20/2017 10:31 am

Colleen #63 - thanks - very interesting! I forget about all of those earlier interviews and they don't turn up easily without persistent searching. Well done!

Its interesting he says NSA because I noted a short while ago that we have had various NSA references lately, since the return from the fall hiatus, including the NSA recruiting Elise/Janet/possible Jennifer. hmmm

Red was in the Navy and then in the NSA. Not disputing that, but at the same time, the first thought that comes to mind is, how does he do all of that in the short timeframe we are given, assuming he graduated the Academy by 1984? Unless he went more or less directly to NSA from the Navy. He had a jam-packed 5 years. Or, of course, he's not the original Red. (heh heh)

The serial killer thing is interesting. I don't think that explains Red, and I think at the time, they may have wanted to distance the plot from Silence of the Lambs, as some critics at the time picked up on that aspect of it, and I think they wanted to make clearer that was not the storyline. But I still have to think that the Zodiac Killer plays into his story somehow, in a fictional way. How, we don't know.

But I do agree that NSA and operative are the key words!

Questions, questions!

Last edited by lara1 (3/20/2017 10:32 am)

Tatiana · 3/20/2017 10:44 am

Colleen wrote:
Thanks Eastcoast for the posting the photos! How wild would it be if the opening title sequence contained TBL's biggest secret all along?
Note that Spader also used the word "operative," which according to the dictionary means "secret agent or private detective."
The words of the day are NSA and OPERATIVE.

GREAT POST!!! NSA and OPERATIVE it is then!
I saw Eastcoast's post last nignt and his 'dark' side was scary!

Eastcoast, that was a wonderful post! The pic captures everything doesn't it?

I'm so excited by this. Going to read more when I get a chance.

Colleen · 3/20/2017 11:07 am

I agree Lara1 #64 - perhaps Red witnessed something as a child. I've been reading up on Zodiac and other monsters. As a student, I read quite a bit about serial killers and criminal profiling, intending to go to grad school for forensic psychology. Nowadays I'm in the criminal justice field using my psych background, but with folks who usually end up being decent people who turn their lives around. Much more optimistic profession than being a criminal profiler

If I find anything worth sharing I'll put it on our new THRUSHES page.

Tuxie400 · 3/20/2017 11:21 am

Eastcoast - I see what you mean about one side of Red's face. It does look rather monstrous.

Colleen - That NSA info is something I'd never seen before, but it fits into my own theory. What is the new THRUSHES page?

Tatiana · 3/20/2017 12:09 pm

Tuxie et al:

http://thrushes.boardhost.com/index.php
Here's the new page. Can't wait to see what you've found

Tuxie400 · 3/20/2017 12:19 pm

I'm unable to comment here or on the other site because of the terms.

lara1 · 3/20/2017 12:58 pm

HI tatiana and Honey West,

thanks for setting up the alternate site. A quick question - the stuff for Blacklist History and Off topic - should I continue to post on here unless its related to anything on the actual discussion boards there?

For example, my clocks and numbers reference that I put under reference on this site.

thanks!

Tatiana · 3/20/2017 1:16 pm

Lara - I would say keep posting the clocks and numbers things here since we have such a deep history built already.
If something should come up with regard to those subjects that's gruesome/on the dark side, please feel free to post on THRUSHES with a post saying that's what you're doing. That way readers will know 1) where to find your posts, and 2) that they may or may not want to read it.

Thanks!

Honey West · 3/20/2017 3:13 pm

Very good stuff! I've been so busy on the Thrush site that I hadn,t checked in here much today.

As to the timeline for Red, it is possible. He could have been recruited fairly early on, especiallly if he had skills that they specifically needed. Perhaps he only spent a short time aboard ship before they took him to the NSA? And that could have cut short his promising Naval career at the same time. When he was talking to Liz about choices when they were in the shipping container, maybe that was the choice he was talking about. It would also get him back on land where he could easily have been in California. Perhaps being aboard ship was part of a cover for what he was really doing and maybe that was the story told to Carla?

lara1 · 3/20/2017 4:49 pm

So just thinking about the NSA connection , two things occur to me:

NSA if I understand correctly is intelligence and counter-intelligence, much of it systems- communication oriented. Interesting that Red appears not to understand systems, communications etc in an obvious, pointed way. Hmmmm

NsA headquarters - fort Meade. Near to where Red "disappeared" on his way home on Christmas Eve ; and probably near the cabin too ( where he takes Naomi). Hmmm again .....

Last edited by lara1 (3/20/2017 4:51 pm)

Eastcoast · 3/20/2017 10:13 pm

I think that side of the face looks like it has been burned. I have a few more pics I am posting. But they are not really about his face....

Tuxie400 · 3/20/2017 11:25 pm

Eastcoast - Yes, the left side of Red's face does look burned in your pic, and it seems like most of his ear is gone. But maybe it's just the shadow side.

Eastcoast · 3/20/2017 11:54 pm

There are 4 pics of it. Did you click to see them all? I was thinking that for a while and then one day when I was cropping out pics I blew it up and it didn't seam that way anymore.
Although I did not have a lot of experience with burn victims when I was working, I did have a friend and a extended member of the family with burns. I also shared the hospital room with another child who was burned from playing with matches and their t-shirt caught on fire when I was young. When I blew it up close that was all I could think of. The skin looks chewed/melted to me. It looks to me like that pic is intentionally like that. It is just strange that it is the same side where the Dr. was looking and talking about his plastic surgery.

lara1 · 3/21/2017 11:58 am

eastcoast - thanks for pointing out that the image in #62 is actually 4 different images, I didn't realize that.

I agree with you, the ear on the left side seems smaller or flatter or otherwise "damaged". It would be easier to say that it is because of the shadow if Red had angled his head slightly to the side so that we would be viewing it at a different angle. but he is looking straight ahead, so I would expect both sides to be roughly the same, though one in much more shadow.

It's still possible that it is the shadow, but to me it looks different (whether intentional or not).

Last edited by lara1 (3/21/2017 11:59 am)

Eastcoast · 3/30/2017 1:36 am

So, here is what has been rolling around in my head for a long time.
I have tried to entertain the Imposter theory and when I do I hit a road block with this. And since the end of the show might be soon I am going to throw it out there.
If there was a real Red who was killed, how could he have gotten plastic surgery so fast and gotten back to work unnoticed so soon? Basically the next day for all we know? He would have had to have had the surgery already done. And so many people know him by voice.
He didn't disappear until the end of 1990. They said he was on his way home to see his family so that means he was active or not on the run with the Navy during this time of Jan. - Dec.1990. They knew who his family was because Naomi said they thought she was a part of it and it was her they went to.

I just wonder if there is something about the time of the fire that we are not catching? He is burned, could have been that he got treatment while in the navy by saying he was burned some other way and Naomi helped him with the story. Or maybe they are from something else but I doubt it only because of all the hype about the fire that seams to be a main part of this show.
I think Naomi was there fire night because of what Tom said to Liz in that dream she had when red came in and shot him. That maybe that was a hint..... I did go back and watch her again when she saw him and she did look over at that side of his face like that Dr. did when she said he looked different.

Maybe it was someone else who was shot ? I really think Kirk was there. He had a painting sent with the fire being the theme of it but he denied to Liz there was a fire so I think he was hiding something. I was thinking maybe she shot him and he didn't want her to remember it. Maybe it was him and not KR who came looking for her that night and she could have been in the closet telling everyone to split up and look. I thought I saw a woman's purse in the closet but it could have been something else. Maybe Kr and Naomi were the one struggling in that hallway we saw. Maybe him and Red were arguing since her memories and or flashbacks cannot be trusted 100%?
The Dr. said her memories could be all mixed up as far as who was who that night.

Now, this could be in my head, but if you remember when young Liz and older Liz were out in the snow we heard a woman say "catch me". I listened to that over and over again and it sounds just like Lottie saying it. I wonder if they had her in mind all along for this part?

I did wonder if he had another family who was killed and was remarried to Naomi. He could have told her that he had Liz and didn't want them to know. Maybe they wanted him to do something he didnt want to do to KR and so they killed his family?
He could have been plotting a revenge by stealing that stuff without them knowing it by looking like he had moved on with his life.
What ever he took when he dissapeaered it was after the fire.

Well, I am very tired and I am not sure I have got all this in the right order of what I meant.
But I am looking for some feedback on this from you guys.

I am thinking that since Liz has really changed her attitude towards him to one of more respect and not flying off the handle if she did her own Dna test and found out this is her father. After all, she could have been thinking that it was either Kirk or Red since she did read her moms diary and read about the affair and Kirk even said he thought she was Reds.

No preview button???

Last edited by Eastcoast (3/30/2017 1:42 am)

Tatiana · 3/30/2017 4:12 pm

Eastcoast - great topic for discussion!
Here's my initial reaction to Red as imposter: The theory is that whoever he is, he gave Masha his dead daughter's identity. He would have done this after Fire night and after 'Blood Everywhere' Christmas Eve night. But that's not possible because he put Elizabeth in Kate's arms when she was an infant and called her Elizabeth. Plus, on Fire Night the woman (supposedly) calls the girl Masha and the man (supposedly) calls the girl Elizabeth. Either way, the girl is referred to as Elizabeth before those two turning points.

So I think this and what you said points to multiple plot gaps that don't make sense especially re: imposter theory. Now I'm really curious about that dream sequence you referenced. I'll have to go back and watch it!

lara1 · 3/30/2017 7:21 pm

Eastcoast - I will think about your theory but I do think that Red has had plastic surgery - that could be for several reasons, including that one side of his face was burned in the fire (remember the man laying on the ground in Liz's fire memory, wasn't one side of his face flat to the ground and one side up so that if stuff fell on his back and burned him it could have burned that side of his face too? Unless I have that wrong. But that would also match up with your idea about the picture of Red in the opening montage and how one ear looks different (maybe burned) than the other.

I will think some more and come back to you on the rest. (Not sure if that is a thinking cap emoji, but I just made it one! LOL