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Apparently this TV Guide writer thinks the mommy theory is valid enough to at least float.
She sites the last episode and Cape May as episodes that could support the Red is Katarina theory.
In Dr. Adrian Shaw II, the way Kirk and Reddington describe Katarina is to describe Red: "unafraid, daring, being. Having a joy for living. More alive than anyone I know." Red has that zest for living that sets him apart from the rest of the world.
In Cape May, when I saw the scene of Red and Katarina lying side by side with the same skin color and eye color, it struck me that they were the same person. There is one shot in particular that blends the faces, puts her eye and his on the same plane and replaces her nose with his.
Last edited by Tuxie400 (12/27/2016 2:30 pm)
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I haven't read the articles yet, but my current theory is that if they are not the same person, then Red carries her memories. Like when Liz's memories were erased/replaced/altered, it wouldn't be too farfetched to think that maybe somehow Red was given Katarina's memories. He describes her as the most resourceful woman he's ever known. Well, isn't Red also very resourceful? I'm not quite prepared to go the Red IS Katarina route, but I am thinking he has all or some of her memories. And I am not so sure she's dead. I am currently thinking that her suicide attempt failed and she is somewhere either in a coma or vegetative state. That might be why the Longevity Initiative was important. (that was the one, right?)
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Honey West - That's an interesting thought about Red carrying some of Katarina's memories. Other than actually being Katarina, that might explain why he knows how Katarina felt about Liz during her pregnancy and why he might know what she did on her date with Konstantin. I've seen some people speculate that Liz carries transplanted memories of Red's daughter's too. The Longevity Initiative did have to do with helping people recover from brain injuries. I thought that one might have been aimed at both recovering Liz's memories and helping Josephine.
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hi Tuxie400, thanks for posting.
My re-watch never got started, its been super hectic over the last few weeks. I hope to at least get in a re-watch of Cape May and the last few episodes of the current season before the return on Jan 5. Good news is, only one more Thursday without TBL!
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Honey West - I didn't realize Cinema Blend had done an article too.
lara1 - I've rewatched all of Season 2, and various episodes from one and three. The places where I see support for the Red is Katarina theory are mainly the emotional scenes. I have no real proof - just squirmy emotional reactions and dialog that could have a double meaning. I wrote a very long post yesterday and then decided not to submit it because every example I would list could be interpreted more than one way. The writers have done a superb job keeping all the theories afloat. What saddens me most is how many people on the TV Guide site and The Blacklist Exposed facebook say they would quit watching if the mommy theory is right. Whatever theory proves out in the end, I will always love this show. Nothing should take away from Spader's portrayal of Red over the years.
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Tuxie400 #5 - Yes, i agree, those emotional scenes could play out any of several ways. Especially those where Red is remembering Katarina in Season 3...then again, to me, he doesn't seem as though he is remembering them as himself but rather through what he knew of Katarina....as he seems a bit mystified or puzzled by some of it....well its still up in the air though. As at the same time, it seems to me that he knows a whole lot more and is holding back from saying it...whatever his motivations one could be that he knows the truth but cant reveal it, as Katarina....
Although I haven't looked at the other blogs/sites for a while now, I don't understand some reactions to the theories. It is, at the end of the day, fiction and I feel I'm along for the ride and enjoy the puzzle. It doesn't matter to me how the story ends, as long as the journey was worthwhile and I enjoyed the ride. I don't even necessarily want to know the ending before the end.
Last edited by lara1 (12/28/2016 9:44 pm)
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lara1 wrote:
Although I haven't looked at the other blogs/sites for a while now, I don't understand some reactions to the theories. It is, at the end of the day, fiction and I feel I'm along for the ride and enjoy the puzzle. It doesn't matter to me how the story ends, as long as the journey was worthwhile and I enjoyed the ride. I don't even necessarily want to know the ending before the end.
Hear hear!
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The other scene that I think best supports the mommy theory is Liz and Red on the swings in General Ludd. It mirrors the photo of Liz and Katarina. And how many men do you know who swing on a child's swingset? When I rewatched that episode last week, it just kind of stopped me in my tracks and I couldn't stop thinking about that photo of Katarina and Liz.
lara1 - I agree. The journey has been well worth the ride, no matter the outcome. At the end of Season 2, I would never have predicted people would eventually be speculating about sex changes or memory transplantation. Maybe it will turn out to be something much less "out there."
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HI Tuxie400. that's interesting about the swing scene. I did note when I watched it that the swingset was red! Haha. I'd always thought it was a foreshadow of that photo on the swing and of a closer connection with Red to Liz , and to her as a child, than we knew at the time. And that he was trying to comfort Liz over the death of Sam, which, unknown to liz at the time, he had done. But the mommie theory overlay on that scene is interesting
here is a teaser: if Red is katarina, what do you make of the home movie scene? do you think that Katarina is looking at a film of herself, with a child (I do not think that child is Liz). And Tacoma park - do you think its because of "what happened there" to Red's family or to Katarina's family? interesting!
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lara1 - I think the home movie shows Katarina and her daughter, whether the daughter is supposed to be Masha/Liz or another daughter. I always thought the mother had been purposely cut out of the videos. If Red is Katarina, "what happened there" is to Katerina's family. And bubble girl is either her daughter or her younger sister. In watching Esteban, I noticed Red's reflection in a picture of flowers. Those flowers reminded me of the ones on the mother's dress, and also of the dress Liz holds in Djinn as she reveals her fantasy.
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Tuxie400 - that's interesting about the home movies and the flowers. I agree about cutting the mother out of the videos - when Red is working on the film in his workshop, he is clearly splicing the film. I don't think it was to repair it in some way but to cut out portions of it. Why, I don't know. Unless there was a third person in the frame who was cut out, but I think it was the full view of the woman.
I didn't catch that view of Red in the flower picture. I had noticed the similarity between the dress in the home movies and the one that Liz pulls out - that kind of leaves Red speechless, staring into the distance. That certainly got a reaction out of him. And, little Liz in the Summer Palace memory is wearing a dress with flowers on it.....hmmmm