The Blacklist Refugees » Episode 7.10, Katarina Rostova

Eastcoast · 12/13/2019 8:31 pm

Up and Running!
Enjoy!!!!

Tatiana · 12/13/2019 8:44 pm

Thank you so much, Eastcoast!!!
My husband was out of state and came home with Thai food for our whole family. I didn't realize the time!

As it turns out, our antenna reception is dreadful so we'll have to watch it tomorrow morning anyway. Until then, don't answer your phone if it comes up "Nick's Pizza"

IowaWatcher · 12/13/2019 9:08 pm

Awesome episode! I'm so happy!
They *did not* kidnap and have anyone leave with either Liz or Agnes, nor did they kill off Dom, Ilya, or KR (nice twist).

And what's up with Ressler? That was amazing and unexpected. He has truly fallen down the rabbit hole, but I'm OK with that.

An excellent job of setting up for the next half of the season, without doing any of the really annoying things that I was expecting. Now, how am I going to wait until March? That's a long way away . . .

IowaWatcher · 12/13/2019 9:10 pm

I'm still not convinced that KR is real.

Tuxie400 · 12/13/2019 9:41 pm

Iowa Watcher - I still don't think this is the real Katarina, but I was close to being convinced at the end of the episode.

I found this episode very disappointing as a resolution to last week, which I thought was an excellent episode. I'm sort of looking forward to the long break. After what this show has become, I need a break.

I was actually wondering if Liz was going to pull the plug on Dom when she was talking to her comatose grandfather. I didn't like Ressler wanting to scramble Krilov's brain. Weird. At least there was finally a payoff for Aram's contrived wedding crasher plot. I was happy that Ilya lived and no one was kidnapped.

But I'm so weary of Liz being against Red, and it sure looks like that what the second half of the season will be.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (12/14/2019 10:28 am)

Cate · 12/13/2019 9:58 pm

IW: Thank you for that reassuring word ... I wasn't able to watch live, and I'm glad we don't have wild angst and bloodshed to ponder for 3 months. I'll catch the details in the morning.

Big Badd Bazzer · 12/13/2019 11:12 pm

Saw the fake killing of KR all the way. She booked a hit on herself - with a catch!

Funniest scene in TBL history - Agent Park & Red sharing the back seat of Red's ride - - - - and Red being in a state of disarray when he realizes its Park beside him. Then after getting the info of Flynn from Park - Red tells her to get out of the car.

Liz continued her amazing trend as the world's most gullible profiler - turning to KR's side after only a few minutes of explanation.

Nice to see Horrible Heddy make a return to the scene - as an emergency responder none the less.

Honey West · 12/14/2019 12:48 am

I really liked this episode.When KR was "killed" I went "Nooooo!!!" But I suspected it wasn't for real, this is TBL after all.

Everyone keeps ragging on Liz this season, but, you know, I loved that she and Tom had picked that building because it could provide an emergency escape route - which she enhanced by connecting it to a utility tunnel. She's learned a bit from the old man. And I'm sure Tom, too.

So those Russian brothers. Dembe and Red knew who they were. Dembe was able to keep Red in the car by pointing out that they'd kill him, too. Was Dembe in on any of it? He seemed a little too calm about it all IMHO. And when did KR set up the hit on herself? And why would she do that? Was it to "disappear" after she got the info from Ilya? I guess she did it for Red's benefit and always intended that he witness her "death". She very obviously drove right past him and Dembe, didn't even look at them. As usual, she had to be dead to protect Liz, and who better than Red to be the witness.

Donald! What are you up to these days? If he wipes Krilov's memory there goes one person who knows a lot of secrets about Red and Liz. Maybe Red put him up to doing this to eliminate those secrets from being found.

So Dom is in a coma. Where was he? In Red's little apartment? I wonder how much he heard of what Liz said to him.

Okay, I'll admit it, I was definitely rooting for Katarina by the end of the episode. But at the same time, I was sort of feeling sorry for Red because he doesn't seem to know what's coming. At least he got Ilya back, more or less.

Looking forward to the back half of the season. March? Seriously?

TheYeti · 12/14/2019 8:53 am

I really enjoyed this episode although I feel like the writers are struggling a bit this season. Was there no other way of finding the name Gregory Flynn except for Aram's coincidental wedding crash? Other than that, the episode was great although it's a shame that we still know so little about the Townsend Directive. I hope they won't fully drop that plot as they did with the Cabal.

Tuxie400 · 12/14/2019 11:06 am

Big Badd Bazzer wrote:
Funniest scene in TBL history - Agent Park & Red sharing the back seat of Red's ride - - - - and Red being in a state of disarray when he realizes its Park beside him. Then after getting the info of Flynn from Park - Red tells her to get out of the car.

It was funny. Park is forgettable though.

Tuxie400 · 12/14/2019 12:06 pm

There were two lines of dialog that didn't make sense to me.

1. Liz knowing about the Townsend Directive. I don't remember Red ever mentioning it to Liz. Why did Liz mention it to Katarina?

2. Katarina, if she's not Katarina, knowing Liz shot her father. That was one of the moments when I thought this woman might be the real Katarina. I suppose she could have found the info in Liz's notebook, but that wasn't shared with the audience.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (12/14/2019 1:03 pm)

Honey West · 12/14/2019 2:47 pm

Reading some of the interviews with the Johns it almost sounds like they may be wrapping up THE storyline at the end of the season. So maybe this will be the last even though nobody has said so yet. In any case, they will wrap up the Red, Liz, Katarina story. Not sure where they could go once that happens. It would be a whole new show.

Tuxie, I thought it was interesting that she said "You shot your father..." and not you shot and killed, or killed, your father. That could be because the line as written was a better one than adding to it would have been. But yes, she seemed to know things only Katarina would know. Or very few other people know. I'm not sure about Liz knowing about the Townsend Directive. If she knew about it, how did she know about it? Maybe it's in a "deleted scene". LOL! But, I did think Red was rather freely speaking in front of the Post Office crew about Katarina. Up until then she had just been "that woman in Paris". Did we ever hear him tell them that she was Katarina Rostova? I thought something was missing there. Wouldn't Aram have made some comment about it like, you mean it was Liz's mother who had kidnapped Red? (I say Aram because he usually gets to say things like that)

And BBB, I still am not sure what Park was even doing in Red's car. I was as surprised as he was.

KathyN · 12/14/2019 4:24 pm

Tuxie, I think the knowledge that Liz killed her father was new to Katarina and was some of the story she got out of Ilya: that Red was dead (we heard him say that) and he probably at some point said Liz shot him. When she kidnapped him in Paris she thought he was THE Raymond Reddington. A lot of this is the show runners changing stream mid-season with a new direction they want to go. I don't recall how Liz knew about the Townsend Directive either, I agree with HW, probably in a deleted scene or a continuity error (which there is no excuse for).

I'm still not convinced this is her mother, as a matter of fact, I'm more convinced that it's not. I have nothing else to add, except it's good that for me it's not coming back until March because if it was continuing next week I'd stop watching. Maybe by March I'll change my mind.

BBB - does it seem unfair to you like it does to me that the TV masterpiece of POI was cancelled after 5 seasons and BL is chugging away with a retread of the same story told 3 or 4 times already and keeps getting renewed? there is no justice in TV land...She loves him, she hates him, she loves him, she hates him, she aligns with Tom and Kate against him, she goes back to him, she aligns with Kurt against him, she goes back to him, she aligns with Jennifer against him, she goes back to him, now she aligns with Fakearina against him???? ENOUGH. Like I said, I'm done.

There are 3 interviews given by the Johns that are full of spoilers so rather than post them here or the links room, I'll give them a thread in spoilers. They discuss what's coming the last half of this season. No surprises to any of us who've watched season 1-7, you've seen it all before (see my above paragraph). But it is spoiled so that's why I'll post them there.

Tuxie400 · 12/14/2019 6:04 pm

KathyN - I'm glad you still think she's NOT Katarina. This last episode had me starting to doubt that she was only a double. The fact that the episode is called Katarina Rostova bothered me, along with her knowing Liz had shot her father. It also bothers me how freely Eisendrath calls Laila Liz's mother in interviews. But when I look at everything else in this season, my gut feeling is still that she's not Liz's mother.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (12/14/2019 6:18 pm)

Big Badd Bazzer · 12/14/2019 7:53 pm

KathyN wrote:
Tuxie, I think the knowledge that Liz killed her father was new to Katarina and was some of the story she got out of Ilya: that Red was dead (we heard him say that) and he probably at some point said Liz shot him. When she kidnapped him in Paris she thought he was THE Raymond Reddington. A lot of this is the show runners changing stream mid-season with a new direction they want to go. I don't recall how Liz knew about the Townsend Directive either, I agree with HW, probably in a deleted scene or a continuity error (which there is no excuse for).

I'm still not convinced this is her mother, as a matter of fact, I'm more convinced that it's not. I have nothing else to add, except it's good that for me it's not coming back until March because if it was continuing next week I'd stop watching. Maybe by March I'll change my mind.

BBB - does it seem unfair to you like it does to me that the TV masterpiece of POI was cancelled after 5 seasons and BL is chugging away with a retread of the same story told 3 or 4 times already and keeps getting renewed? there is no justice in TV land...She loves him, she hates him, she loves him, she hates him, she aligns with Tom and Kate against him, she goes back to him, she aligns with Kurt against him, she goes back to him, she aligns with Jennifer against him, she goes back to him, now she aligns with Fakearina against him???? ENOUGH. Like I said, I'm done.

There are 3 interviews given by the Johns that are full of spoilers so rather than post them here or the links room, I'll give them a thread in spoilers. They discuss what's coming the last half of this season. No surprises to any of us who've watched season 1-7, you've seen it all before (see my above paragraph). But it is spoiled so that's why I'll post them there.

No TV show or movie for that matter has had as profound an effect on yours truly than POI (Person of Interest). I'm so glad I was in on it from the very beginning (2011) to its unfortunate withdrawal from network TV in 2016. The initial premise of computer surveillance & artificial intelligence didn't really grab me but after viewing all 103 episodes (some more than dozen times) the effect is chilling.

Takeaways -
1. Amy Acker's captivating performance as the supreme assassin & hacker "Root" was perhaps the best female performance in TV history and Sarah Shahi's "Shaw" wasn't that far behind. Kudos to Taraji P. Henson for her "Carter" portrayal.

2. The writing & storyline of POI was riveting. Simply riveting. Each episode like a made for TV movie.

3. TBL still reigns as a great show but less to storyline and writing (which are too often inconsistent & scattered). It owes its success to one person, James Spader - the one man Falstaff/Macbeth/Hamlet/Shakespeare. He captures a wide variety of humanity in his firmly placed portrayals of the Fake Red Reddington.

4. TBL can't hold a candle to POI for direction, writing, continuity. It rivals POI for violence & shafto-changeos

5. POI gave female characters the store in terms of dominant female portrayals. TBL isn't even close - although Mr. Kaplan was a superb concoction of a supporting character.

6. Both shows gave its supporting cast a nice role in the shows. Fusco in POI - Aram in TBL. Enrico Colantonio's Elias in POI, Glen (Jellybean) in TBL. I could go on and on.

. . . . NOW BACK TO OUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED FORUM DISCUSSION

Eastcoast · 12/15/2019 1:16 am

Tatiana, I hope you were able to see it today.

Iowa W. I'm glad everyone lived to see another episode too.

I was thinking there would be more answers. At least that's what I felt we were led to think there would be.

I saw the fake death coming at us yet again. Lol

I saw in a promo that Liz yelled "murderer". But i didn't see that in this episode. Did anyone else?

I am leaning more towards this being her mother. Pics and interviews along with this episode mesh for me.
I went back through some of my pics, and I have one from the interview a while back. It showed a pic of Lotte in 1991 and a pic of Laila 2019 for Katarina.

I'm wondering if we have just been Conditioned to think everyone is an imposter? There have been so many fake fathers, maybe they figure we will assume she is a fake.

The thing that got me at the end, was when Katarina was so emotional. Liz couldn't see her, so there was no need to fake her emotions at that point.

I was hoping Liz wasn't going to help her out. I was actually holding my breath and then there it was... she said she could get her out of there.
I have to remember Liz has been lied to and led to believe things that are not true. She was good until she learned he isn't Ilya. I do not think she expected Dom to spin her
A tale. I think he told her part of it, just not the rest of the story!

I'm guessing that Ilya will remember Liz being there.

Eastcoast · 12/15/2019 1:27 am

Honey West wrote:
I really liked this episode.When KR was "killed" I went "Nooooo!!!" But I suspected it wasn't for real, this is TBL after all.

Everyone keeps ragging on Liz this season, but, you know, I loved that she and Tom had picked that building because it could provide an emergency escape route - which she enhanced by connecting it to a utility tunnel. She's learned a bit from the old man. And I'm sure Tom, too.

So those Russian brothers. Dembe and Red knew who they were. Dembe was able to keep Red in the car by pointing out that they'd kill him, too. Was Dembe in on any of it? He seemed a little too calm about it all IMHO. And when did KR set up the hit on herself? And why would she do that? Was it to "disappear" after she got the info from Ilya? I guess she did it for Red's benefit and always intended that he witness her "death". She very obviously drove right past him and Dembe, didn't even look at them. As usual, she had to be dead to protect Liz, and who better than Red to be the witness.

Donald! What are you up to these days? If he wipes Krilov's memory there goes one person who knows a lot of secrets about Red and Liz. Maybe Red put him up to doing this to eliminate those secrets from being found.

So Dom is in a coma. Where was he? In Red's little apartment? I wonder how much he heard of what Liz said to him.

Okay, I'll admit it, I was definitely rooting for Katarina by the end of the episode. But at the same time, I was sort of feeling sorry for Red because he doesn't seem to know what's coming. At least he got Ilya back, more or less.

Looking forward to the back half of the season. March? Seriously?

Ya know, I was thinking about these things you mention.

I did love what she said about why her and Tom picked that apartment.

Donald seemed totally out of character. It was really weird to see him go so far out on a limb like this. However, i wonder if he is going to help himself to some information about Red and Liz??

As soon as Dembe said the men's name coming for KR, I thought how can they know everybody?

Tuxie400 · 12/15/2019 10:01 am

Eastcoast - I also wondered whether Donald would try to get info from Krilov on Liz and Red. Good for you knowing Katarina's death was faked. I was just as fooled as Red.

Honey West · 12/15/2019 1:01 pm

Eastcoast wrote:
I'm guessing that Ilya will remember Liz being there.

I forgot about that! But I think you are right. He had his eyes open at times and must have seen her. He had just seen her at Red's campsite, too. The question will be - will he tell Red? Because then Red would know that she knows who he's not. I forget without going back to watch, but did he also witness Liz helping Katarina to escape? Or was he out of it again after Katarina worked him over?

I agree about her emotion when Liz couldn't see her and she didn't need to be acting for anyone. If she's not Katarina, then I believe she thinks she is. So It's probably just easier for her to be Katarina. Even if it's like Red is Raymond Reddington.

IowaWatcher · 12/15/2019 1:27 pm

I didn't see KR's "hit" coming. I thought it would end with her luring Red outside of the city and into some sort of ambush where she shot him or kidnapped him, again, leaving Dembe on the ground in a pool of blood. I was so glad that wasn't the case. The fake hit on her was much better!

I haven't read the interviews/spoilers and won't for awhile. I, too, am getting a little tired of the series. They've badly lost their way. I was hopeful they would find it again and give us some good spy stories but it's gotten very weird..

Yeah, I don't know what the deal was with Park, either. Were they trying to show some missing time for Red? Remember how Liz hesitated and then helped KR? I thought maybe she had been drugged and memories messed with at some point. Again, getting too weird without letting the audience in on a clearer motivation for KR's actions.

Here's why I don't think KR is real: Ilya. She almost lost her freedom by insisting that he needed to be moved. She seems fixated on finding answers to things that she should already know, and Red, while sorting through the photos, uttered the comment that KR was a shadow, several women (this is a paraphrase! I'll look for that line over my vacation when I have more time to ponder the show).

Anyway, yes, they need to wrap it up this year. If they could keep up the top-notch writing, stick to more spy stuff and keep track of details, then the show could go for awhile, but they don't have the concentration/motivation for the sort of demanding work that goes into a series like this, and that might even be a generational problem, brought to the forefront by the implosion of Game of Thrones -- the show runners just bailed on it, and they're doing a similar number to Star Wars. (Tell me what you think of "The Rise of Skywalker" on another day in the off-topic area of this forum.

My point here: we don't have writers like Rod Serling, et al. who could create the sharp, top-notch writing week after week and the directors to bring it to life and catch continuity errors (or someone sharp in production). There are still lots of great ideas around, but shows like POI and The Blacklist (when it first started) are few and far between, which is why I don't watch a lot of TV and even less now with a second job.

Okay -- enough rambles for a Sunday morning. I'll be off soon and read the interviews before shooting off my mouth further.